Just got my new Seaskin Nova -- The Good and the Ehhhhh...

[Zef]

But you do have to ask for the ovals, so system is working as intended lol

You have to ask for the round too, and the Kubi if you want that option instead of glued in latex seals.

(The joke was not missed, btw )

-Z

 

[Zef]

Lolz. No.

Sorry, but you're approaching the situation with an expert insider's view, not the view of a typical user.

One of my profs in grad school had a good acronym for the Seaskin website's general approach: COIK. It stands for Clear Only If Known. From an expert perspective, sure, everything is absolutely crystal clear. From any other perspective, it's not.

Yes, EXACTLY. The Seaskin website contains incomplete information, which caused me to misdiagnose the problem at the Plan stage while crossing the Bridge of Execution. This lack of information thereby led me into a Knowledge-based Mistake as defined by Don Norman in his seminal book The Design of Everyday Things.

I teach this stuff.

This is utter nonsense...from what you have written, you either purchased or intended to purchase the Rolock 90 system before you ordered your Seaskin drysuit and had no idea what Si-Tech cuff system it was compatible with. This is evident by the QCS Oval system being clearly identified as a selectable option, and you selected otherwise....plus you keep blaming Seaskin and their website for leading you astray....you didn't buy your Rolock 90 rings with your drysuit. When you initially considered them you should have checked the Rolock website for compatiblity before purchasing them...their website is fairly clear as well about what the Rolock 90 system was designed for/designed to integrate with.

If you were unsure of what cuff system the Ultimas or the Rolock 90 were compatible with then you should have asked Seaskin, Si-Tech, Rolock, or posted on any number of online forums such as Scuba Board, or diving related Facebook groups, etc.

Even a modicum amount of product research would have gotten/kept you on the right path.

Your issue is not with Seaskin, it is with you not accepting accountability for your error and the lack of product research you conducted for the accessories you wanted added to your customized suit.

-Z

 

[Zef]

Oh but wait...there's more:

Your original post in this thread indicates that you already had a set of the Waterproof Ultima DGS dryglove ring system. You advertised your previous Seaskin suit as having the Si-Tech QCS oval wrist ring sytem installed:

Sold! - Seaskin "Nova" membrane drysuit

Seaskin "Nova" membrane drysuit used, in good condition, freshwater dives only telescoping torso Ti-Zip plastic dry zipper protective outer zipper Si-Tech inflator and dump valves Si-Tech oval rings in Si-Tech cuffs Si-Tech Quick Neck system silicone neck and wrist seals Light Monkey unbalanced...

scubaboard.com

So either you knew they were designed to integrate with the Si-Tech QCS oval cuff system or you knew little to nothing about this product too...which should have led you to do some RESEARCH before selecting the QCP round cuff rings when you ordered your new suit.

Also from your postings, it seems like you purchased your Rolock 90 system from a board member back in May. Given the lead time for Seaskin suits, that might lead one to think you ordered your suit prior to that purchase. So you selected the QCP round cuff system which is not compatible with Ultimas which you already had nor the Rolock 90 which you purchased after selecting your customized options and placing your order....this just further solidifies the notion that you mistakenly ordered the wrong cuff system....again not an issue with the Seaskin website this is an issue with your lack of knowledge and due dilligence in researching what you had and what you wanted.

Plus you have participated in a thread back November 2022, where you metted out the following advice about dryglove ring systems:

Question - Dry Gloves Question

Hi All, This is likely a dumb question but I'm going to ask anyway. I have a dry suit (Waterproof D7X) with a replaceable seal system (Orust I believe). I'm looking into dry gloves and I see that manufacturers sell separate ring systems to install over the wrist seal system that already...

scubaboard.com

As noted above, the ring is removable. A diver can't just mix-and-match rings and dryglove systems because they mate up differently. Thus, you need to replace the factory, non-dryglove-compatible ring with a dedicated ring for the dryglove system you choose.

You apparently knew the importance of compatibility between systems. You knew your previous suit had the QCS oval system and the Ultima dry glove system, and that they were compatible...yet you selected an incompatible option from a webpage that clearly listed the system you needed and knew to work among the selectable choices, yet you chose the wrong one and blame that on Seaskin:

You stated the following:

snip...
The big point, with which I will conclude, is that you're approaching the situation with an expert insider's view, not the view of a typical user.

One of my profs in grad school had a good acronym for what's going on here: COIK. It stands for Clear Only If Known. You seem to be the board's acknowledged expert on dryglove systems. So from your expert perspective, sure, everything about the dryglove options on the Seaskin website is absolutely crystal clear. But to someone who's not an expert, the Seaskin website's info design is at least highly unclear, and in fact, it borders on obfuscatory.

But you are not a "typical" user of the Seaskin website. Your posts indicate that you have owned no less than 3 drysuits, one of which had both a cuff ring system and p-valve...you have participated in discussions about both, and your posts indicate that you have read through other threads about drygloves/ring systems. While you may not have the same amount of experience with the different product offerings on the market, you certainly knew enough to know compatibility is a key concern that should be solidly fleshed out before making a purchase.

You also had experience with p-valve that you had to manualy open and close, yet you didn't attempt to apply that knowledge before using the one you ordered installed on your new suit, nor did you bother to check the product info on the manufacturers website, yet you blame Seaskin for the fact that you soiled yourself and your suit with urine. This just smacks of your own willful negligence to know anything about the product(s) you purchased.

And I'm not sure why you're defending the company against a customer who had a problem. That just seems backward.

I am not "defending a company against a customer who had a problem"....I am calling you out for being disingenous about your situation. Own your mistake...it would be much more respectable than what you have posted in this thread.

-Z

 

[admikar]

Lolz. No.

I'm not going to pursue this much further because we're already at the point of diminishing returns, and further bickering would degenerate into a bazillion short, fragmented responses; e.g., I'd point out that the photo of the p-valve isn't of the disassembled valve but a shot of three different valves next to each other, and then you'd respond to that, and we'd get way off topic.

And I'd like to point out that your initial post was, frankly, more of a personal attack than a critique of the situation.

The big point, with which I will conclude, is that you're approaching the situation with an expert insider's view, not the view of a typical user.

One of my profs in grad school had a good acronym for what's going on here: COIK. It stands for Clear Only If Known. You seem to be the board's acknowledged expert on dryglove systems. So from your expert perspective, sure, everything about the dryglove options on the Seaskin website is absolutely crystal clear. But to someone who's not an expert, the Seaskin website's info design is at least highly unclear, and in fact, it borders on obfuscatory.

And I'm not sure why you're defending the company against a customer who had a problem. That just seems backward.

I am no drygloves expert by any stretch of imagination. Yet, I combed the net looking at options and decided what to buy. It was Rolock. I found out how Rolock works and what it works with. So, I made correct selections on Seaskin website. I went with different p-valve, but same thing applied. Researched what is on offer, how it works and made my decision based on that.
I am sorry, but this is squarely on you. You won't convince us otherwise, no matter how much you try.

 

[berndo]

Yes, EXACTLY. The Seaskin website contains incomplete information, which caused me to misdiagnose the problem at the Plan stage while crossing the Bridge of Execution. This lack of information thereby led me into a Knowledge-based Mistake as defined by Don Norman in his seminal book The Design of Everyday Things.

I teach this stuff.

What do you teach? Looking for excuses and blaming other people for what you did?
You didn't know how to use a p-valve and you didn't know what gloves/rings are compatible. You could have googled it or asked for help. You didn't for some reason, it's in no way, shape or form the fault of seaskin. It's pretty brazen to ask for money back because you were to lazy to google for 5 min.

It's a knowlege-based mistake alright. Not because of their website but because you didn't do your homework before placing an order.

Tons of other people have bought a seaskin from that website without issue. Tons of people use p-valves without a manual to tell you that a valve with a handwheel can be opened ond closed.
Keep saying you're a professor doesn't help to make your argument against seaskin, it make your 'review' look even sillier than it already is.

You made a few silly mistake... it happens, it's annoying, I get it. Own up to it and stop blaming everyone else but youself.

 

[Deezer-D]

£3 to fix braces / suspenders

 

[lexvil]

Well Zef, I’ve managed to get 3 suits how I liked them and if I can do it it’s simple or I’m very lucky.

the problem is the lack of understanding and to many options for suitside rings which isn’t limited to Seaskin or scubaboard, it’s is simple once you know exactly what you are looking for.

if I were running the world the “other” round option would be discontinued so then we could just call it the Si-Tech ring system.

hammering the OP for the mistake is borderline unproductive as it’s instills fear in the ordering process which is hard enough that many seem to fear even doing their own measurements.

im a fan of Seaskin suits and have 3, I try to not get in the head of others as they have gone though the process but I do try to offer assistance to those who ask.

I learned something about myself long ago, don’t teach, assist. I to often make assumptions on the depth of others knowledge because I figure if I know something everyone else must know it too.

@Zef you’ve helped a lot of people here especially with dry glove Choices and issues, OP made an incorrect assumption when ordering the suit, he/she didn’t know and sometimes mistakes are the best learning method, excessive haranguing can quickly wipe out the lesson and put people in defensive posture which isn’t helpful.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

After all this time, now I know why @rob.mwpropane is always talking about his drysuit "suspenders"!

You son of a gun... you got me!! British accent, pinkies in the air and now lingerie

 

[Lorenzoid]

I ordered my first drysuit online, from a dealer. There was no website at all to facilitate that. The dealer sent me an email with a list of questions about options I wanted, and I didn't know which questions to ask for clarification on. Sure enough, the suit arrived with problems that could have been avoided had I ordered in person (which is exactly what I did when it was time to get a new drysuit). This thread and others about Seaskin show how truly simple Seaskin has made online ordering. I can only wish I had as few problems with my first suit as the OP here. These issues, especially considering the very reasonable cost of the suit, seem trivial to me.

 

[berndo]

hammering the OP for the mistake is borderline unproductive

Nobody's been hammering the OP for having made a mistake. He's being hammered for unfairly blaming seaskin for his mistakes.

He randomly ordered stuff without doing any research and blames seaskin, than he used gear without looking into how it works for two minutes and also blames seaskin for that. And now he writes them emails complaining and wants money back... I mean, c'mon, really?

If the people at seaskin could have read his mind, they probably would have been happy to help... now they're getting emails from a 'communications professor' who wants money back because he was too lazy to do any research.
He wrote 'Thanks, Seaskin' for peeing in his suit. WTF?

BS like this should be called out. I'm happy to defend a good company that is getting bashed on the internet for no reason.