JVC Picsio and FlipHD Ultra video users...?

[robint]

JVC Picsio and FlipHD Ultra video users....

I would love to see some of your underwater videos posted here... both with underwater lights and without lights/only using the red filter. Please??!!!

I am looking to compare how these perform underwater in all types of conditions. I know several people interested in getting into underwater video and want some real world comparisons, not just the promo ones on the distributors/manufacturers websites!

robin

 

[leabre]

Robin, at one point or another I think all my videos have been posted here. If not,
www.youtube.com/leabre

I used the Flip Utlra HD for my first four videos, and the JVC for my 5th. The fact is, I like them both, but each has its strengths that would make me choose one over the other in different circumstance.

What I like about the Flip:

* Replaceable batteries instead of recharge only. For diving 1 or 2 dives where I won't accumulate more than 120 minutes of video, this works great.

* Better low-light capture. I like to shoot video of the conditions and surface area of my diving locations that I use in the opening sequence of my dive videos. Most of my diving in in night, so low-light is a must. Doesn't have to be perfect, just close enough. The Flip easily wins in this department.

* It turns on very quick, and off. So if I turn it off and see something that I must film there and now, I can turn on and start recording very quickly with the Flip and not miss the shot.

* I use Sony Vegas Studio for editing the video. It works out of the bod with the Flip codec.


What I perceive as disadvantages of the Flip:

* Built in memory. This means if I want to use on a dive vacation, I have to bring either a laptop with me to download the video to clear some space, or bring multiple Flips (which is what I've chosen to do).

* Image Stablization: none. Recording 720p at 30FPS and no OIS leaves movement looking blurry. Really blurry at times. Not always so noticable on Youtube but on a 52" HDTV it can be nausiating.

* Light sensitivity: I think it saturates too easily. Many of my night shots have been overly saturated with just a 15w LED too close (5 ft). I cannot use my 21w HID or there will be no video at all to keep. During day dives, this is not a problem, this camera records wonderfully with natural lighting. At night, I have to be careful.

* Focal distance: Focal distance is about 3 ft. So any closer and it's blurry with the built-in lens. Not a problem if you're aware of it and edit it at the point it becomes too blurry. But not closeups for smaller creatures.


What I like about the JVC:

* Uses SD cards so I can swap out cards to record more video on longer dive trips where multiple JVC's or bringing a laptop is impracticle.

* Makes better use of the storage than the Flip. Where I record so much time per 100 MB, 500 MB, or 1 GB on the Flip, the JVC seems to record about 10-15% more minutes in the same MB capacity. That may not be scientific since I'm not recording with both Flip and JVC side-by-side (I build a two-handle tray that allows me to do just that and I will shortly), since both advertise 120 minutes per 8 GB, I find the JVC consistently records more minutes than the Flip.

* Image Stablization: JVC has some rudimentary IOS that helps a bit if you're careful, it's still not perfect, but far better than the Flip.

* Records 720p @ 60 Hz. Combined with OIS and 720p at 60 Hz, movement is near crystal clear with the JVC, but that can make one nautious of the movement is too fast.

* Can record @ standard and 1080p. At 1080p, it records 30 Hz, which makes it much like the Flip with regard to motion blur, and depending on light sensitivity, the grainy can be far more pronounced. I keep my recording at 720p on the JVC.

* Macro feature. In portrait mode, the JVC has about 1.8 - 2 ft. focal point to infinity, still closer than the Flip. In macro mode, you can get about 1 inch to 1.5 ft. Any closer or further, it blurs out. It is easy to switch the Macro mode during recording.

* Due to its poor low-light sensitivity, it ends up filming night dives with just the right amount of light to not saturate (at all) with my 15w LED and in shots with my 21w HID it appears to record very close to how my eyes see it.

* JVC has a wider field of few than the Flip. I have a 12 ft. long couch in my living room and if I'm standing 8 ft. from the center, the Flip will record something like the center 9 ft of it but the JVC will be able to barely fit the entire view of the couch into the film. It helps under water, you see more.


What I perceive as disadvantages of the JVC:

* Non-replacable batteries. It's nice that I can change the memory card, but the JVC will always have to be charged. So... for many dives or long dive trips, like the Flip, I'll have to carry multiple JVC's or miss a dive while it charges (if the boat has a plugin). The battery lasts longer than the Flip, but not long enough to record 2 full hours of video. It takes about 1 hour to fully charge a battery.

* Low-light sensitivity: sucks. At beaches, during night, the Flip will pick up what light it can and it generally does a decent job (view my Vets night video (first 30 seconds) for a visual reference). That exact same seen, shot from the JVC is pitch black. While a disadvantage above water, it is a wonderful advantage in-water.

* Time to power up. It is quick, but not as quick as the Flip. I'd say it takes about 3 seconds to power up and begin recording. That's enough to miss some shots if you are swimming around with the power off.

* I use the Sony Vegas Studio software for editing the final video, and it requires Apple Quicktime to be installed for editing, it does not recognize the JVC codec out of the box


Shortcoming of both:

* It isn't the cameras fault, but Ikelite's. They don't make a two-handed tray to assist with stability and to provide option for two lights. The one light option they provide is sufficient, but quickly becomes irritating when you see a circle rather than even distribution of light in the final video. I fabricated a two handle tray that can also serve two lights that seems to help in this area.

In short, I like both cameras. The JVC is far superior in-water night dives due to its resliance to light saturation. I don't have the JVC in my posession currently, but if I did, I'd prefer to JVC over the Flip if recording above water sequences wasn't important. I do not use the included software for editing, I use Sony Vegas Studio. Vegas works with the Flip Codec but not the JVC one (even after installing included software).

There is another camera that Ikelite makes a housing for, the Kodac something or another. I haven't used the camera but it seems to allow for changing batteries and memory cards (a proprietary battery tho) and records 1080p (30 Hz) and 720p (60 Hz) and has OIS (to what degree I cannot comment but most others think it is better than the JVC).

I do not think you can go wrong with the Flip or the JVC.


[Edit] The JVC can take stills but they are nearly impossible to get right. They tend to be blurry. For in-water stills, the JVC isn't it.

 

[JackConnick]

One correction to the above - Ikelite does produce an extra bracket for a two light system.

Jack

 

[Dee]

Thanks so much for this review. I was just coming to ask about the JVC Picsio. I am a total noob to video and wanted to know someones opinion of the Picsio. Beast has an old JVC video camera that's been a good one but the Aquatica housing is the size of my car!

Can you explain more about the differences in 30Hz and 60Hz? Is Hz the same as fps?

So with non-replaceable batteries does that mean I'm stuck with only recharging camera and all? In other words I can't buy an extra battery to pop in while one is charging? That sorta sucks. I'll be using it on dive trips, our next on in June is 2 weeks in Roatan. I'll still be using my still camera so trading off so the video can recharge isn't going to totally mess me up. But having an extra battery would be much better!

You mention low light sensitivity as a con. I doubt I'll be using it at night topside but I know I'll use it on night dives so it's a good thing UW...right? If Beast holds his LED light for me, or with any other lights from other divers, it won't blow out the shot.

I don't see it mentioned o any of the websites I've been too but is there anything like white balance setting on the Picsio?

TIA
~D

So.....do you think the JVC and Ikelite housing would be a good starter rig for someone just learning to video? At this point I won't have a dedicated video light but we have all kinds of LED lights if needed.

 

[leabre]

One correction to the above - Ikelite does produce an extra bracket for a two light system.

Jack

Well, that's good to know. When I last checked in mid-december this was not the case. Is this compatible with non-Ikelite lighting? I'm not too fond of the Pro-V8 lighting system. I'd prefer their 50/100w system, in the absense I created my own tray and attached lights from another manufacturer.

Last I asked Ikelite didn't feel there was a market for dual lights/more powerful lights. I'm glad they finally realize that there are people who might buy low-market cameras, but want decent lighting.

 

[leabre]

Can you explain more about the differences in 30Hz and 60Hz? Is Hz the same as fps?

For all intents and purposes, yes. It captures at 60 FPS but plays back at 30. The end result is that video is much clearer.

So with non-replaceable batteries does that mean I'm stuck with only recharging camera and all? In other words I can't buy an extra battery to pop in while one is charging?

This is true. They are non-replaceble batteries. It's saving grace is that it only takes about an hour to charge. That's a standard surface inteval (if the boat has an electrical socket). There may be a portable USB charger. A quick google shows a few such projects and/or products. Something I myself will look into further.

You mention low light sensitivity as a con.

Only for above water recording. In the water, it is a strength over the Flip.

I don't see it mentioned o any of the websites I've been too but is there anything like white balance setting on the Picsio?

The JVC has no built-in color correction or compensation. It records what it records.

So.....do you think the JVC and Ikelite housing would be a good starter rig for someone just learning to video? At this point I won't have a dedicated video light but we have all kinds of LED lights if needed.

Absolutely. It's a great starter! The Flip and the JVC were both my very first video cameras. I will caution you, get a proper light. If you are using your hand helds, you won't have very memorable video. The narrow beams of standard dive lights may cause undesirable video.

At the very least, get a light diffuser. If you have a Light Canon HID 100, it comes with a diffuser. Others maybe not so. If you need a (very) poor mans solution, take come wax paper and cut a circle the size if your light window, and put it under the lens and it'll diffuse the light. The only question will remain whether those lights are bright enough. You'll likely want to hold the light in place. When my Ikelite Pro-V8 goes wonkers on a dull battery and I use my hand-held, I find it dam near impossible to hold the camera and light in synch enough for good video. It'll be harder if you're buddy holds, he can't read your mind if you change the direction of your camera.

Please please please, don't cut yourself short of decent lighting, even if you make-shift it yourself.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[leabre]

Reading Dee's post reminds me: the JVC takes crappy stills. They are blurry as heck even on a tripod if there's any movement (vibration from cars, train, earthquakes, whatever). Don't get the JVC or Flip of taking still shots to record fond memories is important.

 

[robint]

So.....do you think the JVC and Ikelite housing would be a good starter rig for someone just learning to video? At this point I won't have a dedicated video light but we have all kinds of LED lights if needed.

Yes, but it depends...

There is definitely a video quality difference between these new little camcorders and a full sized, full function consumer camcorder. (I am not even going to get into the professional models comparisons here)

I have an HD camcorder, Canon HG21, base price $900, housing $900 approx. So about 4 times the price... but it gives we alot clearer video underwater. Above water there isn't going to be as noticeable a difference. BUT the drawback is size, also. My rig weighs about 12 lbs without lights, above water and is not going to fit into a pocket! Ikelite Housing for Canon Digital Video Cameras

Look at what I shot in Calif last Sept with my Canon HG21:
[vimeo]6505373[/vimeo]
this was a low light situation and 40-60' vis, I was NOT using lights, just the red filter and no color correction done in editing. This is the true color recorded by the camcorder.

Now compare what the Flip and JVC camcorders recorded in laebre's videos.

Ask yourself:
Is this quality something you can live with?
Are the price and size a factor?

for some people I think the Flip HD or the JVC might be perfect, for others I would say no.

robin

 

[ronscuba]

One of the questions to ask yourself when deciding how much to spend on your 1st UW video system is: am I good on the computer and will I like editing ?

It's the editing that will take up most of your time. If you don't enjoy the editing, most likely you will not edit and your videos will be limited to clips. Once you get past the wow of "hey I'm shooting video UW" phase, you and your audience will quickly get bored with clips. If you spent a little, no big deal. If you spent a lot, you will have regrets.

So, IMHO, if you don't envision spending a lot of time editing, I'd stick with the FLIP or JVC.

 

[leabre]

Good point. I spent about 5-8 hours editing each video you see in my Youtube. You record so much, have to edit it. I've learned what I keep and not, and only record things that I'll keep, and record once that makes it easier. Editing takes forever.