knifes from Taiwan (?)

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Sorry I've mixed up yards and feet. We both threw the knifes 10meters/32.8feet. Of course this is no way you would use your knife while diving.
But it shows the quality of the steel! If you use your knife as a lever the strain at the end of the blade would be similar. It was easy to bend back the Taiwan knife (though it still has a slight S-type cuve). But it we hardly could bend back mine.

And sorry for the Rambo like impression you must have got from me.

tuti

:dead: :reaper: :maniac: :getsome: :mgun:
 
You couldn't pay me to use 99% of the knives sold at a dive shop. 300/400 series stainless steel is absolute junk. I use a ground down Victorinox kitchen knife...it will outcut any dive knife I've ever seen.

Taiwan, Japan, etc is capable of making an excellent knife. The problem is finding one made from a good steel.
 
Don't automatically rule out a blade just because it's Asian; the folks over there will be more than happy to manufacture to whatever specs you want. Unfortuneatly most outfits specify CHEAP as a primary requirement.
A decent $35 titanium knife isn't unheard of.
 
I've had 3 Taiwanese Stainless steel dive knives -- I also own US, UK, German, Chinese and Swiss knives for other purposes. My mother also still uses a very cheap but excellent Japanese bread knife that she bought 30+ years ago from a market stall
(before Japanese goods became known for quality).

I think fancy knives are rather overrated -- but a moderate priced one can be a pleasure to own. For example, my mid-priced US lock knife & combat knife are fairly rough in finish but are good solid workhorses. Cheap brittle knives were common maybe 20 years ago -- I had a couple but I have not seen any recently. You can now buy cheap knives that are very good (the sheaths are often rubbish though!).
I have a couple of cheap ($1.50) chinese saw-blade pen knives (3" & 2") that have incredibly sharp blades but the most brittle, rubbish plastic handles -- I carry them in my ruck sack as cheap, light, disposable emergency knives that will easily slice through thick climbing tape/rope if an emergency decent is needed.

I lost my first dive knife first day out. It was an excellent weight, design and quality and was cheap at 7 pounds ($12). Not sure how it was lost (my first time diving in decades), I am normally very careful with gear. It could be the knife only locked properly in the sheath one way round (I have another knife like that).

Having lost a knife I bought two others. & marked them up with reflective tape. The second dive knife is a big shiney, blunt tip model with a hole in the middle -- quite common & cheap on ebay. I sharpened the rather dull blade & the flat tip up with a mill bast*rd file -- nice and sharp. I works well, I have cut myself free of fishing line, dispatched a spear fish and beheaded and gutted a large fish with it (the long-ish blade & saw on back made this a quick and easy job) -- ignore divers who say get a small knife or heavy scissors, for spearfishing off a snorkel, get a decent size knife. I always rinse all my gear, & occasionaly I touch up the blade & oil it -- however, this shiney knife does not rust. I attached a heavy elastic lanyard as a back up to the sheath -- but it caused the plastic sheath to break, however it was easily fixed with electricians tape & superglue. It is my main dive knife.

My third dive knife is my guest knife, it has a dull-coloured stainless steel blade that rusts after exposure to salt water, so it needs to be cleaned and oiled. However, its blade came very sharp and has stayed that way. I used it for a while when the sheath above failed but the knife is a bit too short to dispatch and/or behead/gut a large fish. It too has a flat tip, which I have sharped (to a flat chisel blade). This model, also popular on ebay, had several things that I did not like:
1. Handle was loose (easy fix: superglued it)
2. It fits sheath either way but locks only on one side (which has a button on the knife handle) -- so careful when re-sheathing.
3. The legs straps were too short for my muscley legs (fix: used the long strap on the bottom and salvaged a nice heavy duty strap from my first dive knife for the top).
4. Straps are stretchy (good) but have no strap loops, so I feed the loose end back under -- a bit trashy though, IMHO and the buckles move & distort in the stretchy strap.

Conclusion:
It is easy to loose dive knives. Buy cheap but good ones by all means.
- Mark them for easy retrieval (reflective tape, paint, float?) and
- back up the often poor sheaths/locks, or replace the sheaths
- add a lanyard & use it to secure the knife (make sure it is easy to release though).
- Sharpen the knives (a dull knife is a poor tool) -- sharpening stones and kitchen sharpeners are ok, but a mill b*stard file will get an edge on anything quickly (it may not look as pretty).
- many swear by a good, cheap kitchen or steak knife and sheath made of old hose-pipe or climbing tape (e.g. tube tape).

What Next?
I am considering buying a low-medium price spearo knife -- one of the Omer Stiletto designs (Hunter, etc.). They are reasonably priced. The sheath on the cheaper one (12 GBP/$20) appears to be rubber & looks robust. Oddly, the otherwise fine looking larger, more expensive knife (17 GBP /$30) has a glossy, bulky, plastic sheath that looks a lot like the cheap Taiwanese knives have. The Stilleto with rear saw blade design makes sense for spearfishing -- although the cheaper one seems too short to me for dispatching big fish. Apparently it is very popular with spearos, can be arm mounted; the stringer is perhaps the obvious alternative choice of dispatch tool (a big Rob Allen one, for example) or RA's dedicated dispatch tool (like a spear end with a handle and metal sheath -- similar to the old weapon they used to dispatch badly injured, armoured knights with). I like the look of the Rob Allen's webbing limpet sheath & may get one -- but the Rob Allen knife, although no doubt wonderful, is just way too pricey for me and for any knife with no proper handle (just bare stainless steel -- admittedly that might be perfect for a gloved spearo not wanting to get snagged -- but it must reduce manufacturing costs significantly); I have seen similar (not identical) stainless steel Taiwanese models which should be a reasonable alternative though. I believe Riffe do some interesting knives too -- probably overpriced for dentists & doctors though :(.

Ideal spearo knife? I reckon an old WWII British commando stilello shape & size, with a saw edge on one side (& perhaps a line notch -- although maybe that is a gimmick), a slightly flattened handle (Omer's knives are closest to this but a bit small) and a Rob Allen Limpet type sheath. Stiletto seems more humane (quicker, cleaner, simpler) than the currently trendy blunt tip blade (even when sharpened to a chisel edge).
 
I got a Cressi Totem knife made in Italy. I like the design, I don't know how good the blade is as I haven't had to use it yet. Cost in Mexico was 40.00, I saw it and had to have it. When I got home I saw it on the internet for around 20.00.
 
Doesn't make a hoot in the holler where a knife is made . . .

What's important is is mollecular composition.

My main concern with a knife is that it be somewhat corrosion resistant, but more importantly, that I'm able to put and keep an exteremly sharp edge on it.

Personally, I prefer the 400-440 grade steels for a knife.

the K
 
Mr. X:
I've had 3 Taiwanese Stainless steel dive knives -- I also own US, UK, German, Chinese and Swiss knives for other purposes.

Turns out the 2nd knife (shiney one - my current dive knife) was probably made in the Czech Republic & not Taiwan (the packaging was Czech anyway). It is really quite good (rubbish sheath though).

By the way, the best selection of knives I have come across recently it this international one (particularly like the Imersion models:), Sporasubs):
http://www.scubastore.com/shop.asp?id_familia=1&id_subfamilia=7

[The SPETTON SAMOA knife appears identical to my first Taiwanese knife -- the sheath is different though -- & the price is almost 300% more:(].
 
The Kraken is right!

As to "The Riddle of Steel." There are volumes of books written on it. For Knife collectors and makers they are as passionate about their craft and schools of thought as divers. DIR vs REC vs Tech vs etc etc etc...

There are a few standards. Stainless Steels. Lower the number the "Harder the knife."

a 300 series stainless is higher Carbon Lower Chrominium (sp?) than a 440. This makes the knife "harder" but less resistant to stain.

Greater Carbon= Higher strength = Lesser Stain Resistance
Higher Chromium = Lower strength = Higher Stain Resistance

There are exotic steels (see links) out there such as 440 V which should make a AWESOME dive knife but there does not seem to be many "Really good" Dive knives.

As for Titanium, as a matter of fact.... MOST AREN'T! I thought it was amazing that you could get a Titanium knife for $40.00 that was remarkable due to the cost of milling, honing shaping Titanium. When S&W started making Ti frames and cylinders the cost was +++$$$.

Most Ti Dive store Knives are 440 or 400 series Stainless and Ti COATED! (SOG Seal)

The Ocean Master knives say they are Beta Titanium and seem to be.

Mission Knives makes a true Ti knife (MPK) for over $300.00 dollars. If you want to spend the cash.

I recommend a 300 to 400 series (420 subzero quenched would be good) and a rinse job a couple knocks on a rod and you should be fine for ten years or so. You want to be sure to get a solid full tang blade. If you get a 440 make sure it is 440C and not 440A.

But then again I am a Wusthof guy and others like Global, Henckel, or Sabatier. It is all in preference and I have seen more knives on the sea floor than any other lost gear.

Links: Steel
More Steel
Steel Again
BladeForums (more than you need to know for a scuba knife)
 
The Kraken:
Doesn't make a hoot in the holler where a knife is made . . .
Yes it does. Why are German and Japanese cars are so popular then? :wink: Some countries invest more in quality because they have to sell based on quality because their costs are high (think EU). Other countries compete on price and therefore need to keep costs down -- which could mean less on materials (chrome,ore,scrap,fuel, limestone,...?), tools & instruments, less on quality (checking the mix, monitoring temperature, calibrating machines, cleaning the crucibles, employing people who give a darn & know what they are doing, and whatever else they may or may not do). So while I agree, somebody might be able to go to the PROC and make a knife of wonderful quality -- in general, the knives made there are likely to be cheap and of variable quality. Japan used to be like that too but they have concerned on quality & their costs have risen.

Like I said though, my cheapo dive knives are quite adequate. Some are better than others. Despite what the metallurgist say, the shiney one seems to take and hold an edge just as well as the duller ones that rust a bit. The main issue are the sheaths -- less glamerous but all important. Actually, Tesco's (British answer to Wallmart) currently has packets of 6 wooden handle, stainless steel steak knives for 5 pounds -- looks like they might be a good spearo knife or back up knife for arm mounting. (The ones with stainless steel handles are just over a pound each :( :wink:!). For a sheath -- buy a very good one (RA Limpet) or make one from climber's tape or hose pipe!.
 
Jeeeez! It's just a knife! Who are you going to make an impression on? Get the cheap one. And what's with the Italian knives? Never heard their industry were so good with steel that it would matter.

Besides, you're gonna drop it and loose it one day anyway, won't you :D
 

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