Local dive shops are really taking the pi$$!

[diverdeb001]

Where does Leisure Pro etc get their inventory???? They must be buying a lot to have the low prices???db

 

[TCDiver1]

Genesis once bubbled...


In a year (if they don't rent out at all) you put them on eBAY at 20% over cost.

If many stores followed this procedure there sure would be a $hitpot full of great deals for drysuits on ebay.

 

[Otter]

with all kinds of generalities that can be proved/disproved with anecdotal evidence on a daily basis. Seems like everytime someone 'discovers' online sales of SCUBA gear, they feel a need to start this type of thread up.

I would like to suggest that we create a new forum called Online Vs. LDS for everyone to post their views, findings, opinions, etc. That way the GOOD stuff that is on the board isn't obfuscated with hyperbole.

 

[cornfed]

OneBrightGator once bubbled...


Until you actively participate on this side of the argument you claim to know everything about you're speaking out of ignorance.

But he has CAPSLOCK and bold he can't possible be IGNORANT??

 

[netmage]

Dive Source once bubbled...

...
As a shop owner I find it very sad that your experiances have been bad enough to generate this much distrust of the LDS structure.
...
I work hard to earn my customers business everyday and as a human being I make mistakes as well as have successes and resent being labelled or grouped.
...
There are LDS's out there that are great and their are those who can improve just like every business or person in the world and assuming all of them are bad is selling them and yourself short in life.

My statement is based on my experiences with shops. I have never been to your shop - feel free to assume my judgements do not apply to you. I have been to dang near every shop in the Chicagoland area for one thing or another. Sometimes I end up driving 40 minutes each way to do so. I try to go out of my way to locate a quality shop - it is afterall in my best interest to have a quality local resource - and am continually frustrated by the poor service as I have experienced has become the rule - not the exception.

If you feel that's being prejudicial - so be it. I stand by my statement - it is afterall the truth. I am still holding out hope & searching. Somewhere out there is a quality shop I can walk into - yet I havn't found it. Thus my business goes elsewhere - be it LP, DiveInn, DiveUS, or two choice shops up in Canada.

I do not think I'm asking for much...
1. Do what you say your going to do.
2. Charge me what you say your going to charge me.
3. Deliver when you commited to deliver.
4. Be responsive to my questions.
5. If you can't deliver, tell me in advance so I don't waste my time coming out to the shop and reset my expectations.

These are not customer service problems endemic to the diving industry just extremely prevelant, and I really havn't even gotten into the whole pricing issue which normally occupies these threads.

 

[RiverRat]

Here's my 2 cents:

1. Don't pay the exorbitant prices and support the "price fixing" going on. Sucks for LDS, but why should the consumer take the full hit? I've got bills to pay and kids to feed, sorry.......I can find all the info I need here on Scubaboard and the net and buy online at LP or whatever. In fact, outside of direct training, I've learned a TON of stuff here. Without SB I could not have pulled off building my FredT BP/W, learn how to service regs etc. Valuable info that the LDS does not want to share.....

2. Support the LDS if you can without costing yourself a fortune.
I bought all my gear there that was competitively priced, such as mask, snorkel, reg. bag, compass etc. Support them as much as possible, because you'll need them for tank fills, training etc. I bought all the big stuff like Apeks regs and from LP. I almost bought a BC but it was way over priced and I got tired of the sales guy preaching over and over again that a BP/W is definately NOT RECOMMENDED for a new diver, your face will be pushed forward, etc. etc. If he was not such an idiot I may have looked at his OMS stuff, he could of sold that maybe, but just kept pushing......So I went to FredT and Oxycheq....too bad.

3. Support the LDS for training. If they provide quality training then that's not an issue. I don't mind spending money there, somewhat priceless to me.

 

[Dive Source]

netmage once bubbled...


My statement is based on my experiences with shops. ..... I am still holding out hope & searching. Somewhere out there is a quality shop I can walk into - yet I havn't found it. I do not think I'm asking for much...

...These are not customer service problems endemic to the diving industry just extremely prevelant, and I really havn't even gotten into the whole pricing issue which normally occupies these threads.

You definately are not asking for much and I hope that you will find it.

I had to take issue with some of the post as new divers also read this board and I feel strongly that this thread was getting slanted and needed to be balanced with an opinion from our side so to speak.

It is a known customer service mantra that people who are not treated properly will tell many more people than those who are treated well.

I would also put out the idea that people actually enjoy complaining about bad service much more than they enjoy commenting on good service and this slants the issue against the LDS in general.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...
Here are folks in a dying industry talking about how horrible it is, and yet they are choosing as a response to do more of what is causing their own demise.

And I love the "20% ROI annually is horrible" crowd. Uh, Mike, no its not. Yeah, yeah, I know all about marginal costs and fixed costs, and all that. But what does having the suits available for rental and then turning them over in this fashion cost you beyond the static investment in the shop?

Nothing.

You don't get it. I take that same money and buy masks and fins. I sell them at a 30 or 40 percent markup and turn them over every couple of months. Now, why would I put that money into dry suits when all the divers around her dive in swim suits in the Caribbean? Not to mention the cash flow problems of a small shop. Just can't tie up that kind of money for that long. You're not telling us anything nre here. Getting a couple rental dry suits was on the list of thing we wanted since the beginning. It just never came to the top of the list. And no we didn't start the business with unlimited funds. How much better can I explain it?

Seals need replaced every few rentals? Every 2 or three? C'mon. You're telling me that every five or six dives you're replacing seals? You're kidding me, right? Set the rental price high enough to cover the maintenance, of course, plus the depreciation in value as you perceive it to be on eBAY or similar.

No. I'm telling you that I have to trim the seals to fit one diver and then they don't fit the next. So...I either replace them or have enough suits to not only fit the multitude of belly sizes but wrist and neck sizes as well. Rental suits go for about $35/day here. What do you suppose a set of seals cost and the time to fit them for a person?

Even just buying the suits, sitting on them for a year ON A SHELF and selling them at 20% over cost is a nice money maker. And oh, by the way, tying up money isn't bad - its called investment, when you have a reasonable rate of return.

Like I said you have to have the money first and a 12 month turn over is not good. Last spring we couldn't pay the rent let alone buy a bunch of dry suits that nobody would use. Another thing is that companies come out with new suits every year. Once the new one's come out you're lucky if you can sell the old ones at all. People who buy dry suits are sometimes cheap but they usually have money. If they buy something that's used or obsolete they want it for nothing, literally.

Many times I had a product that we sold at "only" 10 or 20% over cost. Would I make an entire business out of that? No; I had better margin things to sell too. But on balance was it a bad investment to do this? No way. Not unless I needed the money for something else. At some point if you have a successful business you have free cash flow that can be "parked" in investments like this, which earn a nice return, and are still fairly liquid if you need the cash for some reason. While this kind of investment isn't as liquid as, say, QQQs, its a hell of a lot less volatile and in 7-10 days you can be out with your hide intact if you need to.

Hell, I still have a garage full of stuff that I haven't even been able to sell on ebay. This stuff is anything but liquid. Halcyon wings are liquid. A year old dry suit that fits one out of every few hundred people when only one percent of the population dives and only a couple percent of those dive a dry suit isn't worth spit.

Last spring we had to start selling things cheap. I got a little more than I paid for some and a little less other stuff. It took more than 10 days and when it was over, the bills were paid and I didn't have the money to buy anything for stock. I rented a truck with the last two hundred bucks I was willing to spend on the dive business. LOL

The volume just wasn't there to work with. Oh about the time I was on the way out the door the phone was ringing off the hook and things were picking up. I would have had no trouble staying in business, but why? 4 years and I didn't make a single penny and while I could keep the shop open I saw ZERO income potential. Who want to work 100 hours a week for free? I take that back. Who wants to pay to work 100 hours a week. LOL

We did some neat stuff. A few people even appreciated it. There just wasn't any money in it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

diverdeb001 once bubbled...
Where does Leisure Pro etc get their inventory???? They must be buying a lot to have the low prices???db

If you find out please please let me know.

 

[Scott M]

Ready, Set, Jump

Were do they get it? Thats easy. The manufacturers or distributor for the manufacturer. It would be impossible any other way.

The answer to the LDS's problem, again easy answer - group buying.

With todays communications being what they are it would not be hard to round up a large number of brand x dealers to group together and pony up a little money to hire a business person to come up with an organized plan to come up with a large order and negotiate with the manufactures. With the number of unemployed extremely qualified business people on the market today it would real easy - small salary and a commission on money saved.

As a business we faced almost exactly what the dive industry is facing now. We did the above and now have either bought out or built our own factorys to supply our product.

Just my opinion
Scott