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Here are my experiences with the topics in this thread:

1. I was asked for a logbook on my first liveaboard trip and never again. The purpose was to get an idea of our diving abilities and assign buddies. Half the people did not have one--no problem.

2. I have had to do checkout dives on several leveaboard trips and on a few other occasions. In the famous Tina Watson case, the liveaboard waived its mandatory checkout dive in her case, and they were fined heavily for that after she died. My most recent case was on a liveaboard in Australia. After that dive we were divided into groups--those who could dive on their own and those who had to be with a divemaster.

3. When people cite local laws like this, I am wary of what is actually going to happen. Before my last trip to Australia (two years ago), our group was warned that the law required us to have a current medical form signed by physician. We were told that this would be strictly enforced. (Do a search on the ScuibaBoard Australia forum for such pronouncements.) Before going on the liveaboard, we took a day trip on a boat that must have had a hundred divers. On the way out to the reef, we were each interviewed one by one about our diving histories. When I handed over my copy of my medical form and physician signature, the guy did not know what to do with it. All I had to do was sign a single sentence to say I was healthy. He had to ask one of the more senior crew members what to do with a medical form, because he had never seen one. The exact same thing happened two days later on the liveaboard. All we needed to do was sign a statement saying we were healthy. They were quite confused about the fact that we had a medical form.

I think they stooged you re the medical form. Only time its required here is if you were doing a course of some sort, and I believe its now changed from requiring a dive doctor check for every course, to NOW filing in a form and if you highlight a problem, only then do you consult a dive doctor.

---------- Post added January 11th, 2016 at 08:04 AM ----------

Each time I had to do a checkout dive, it was related to a full package. It was either on a liveaboard or at the beginning of a dive week in a place like Bonaire (where I believe it is required by law). In each case I had paid a set fee for a week of diving, with no specific number of dives involved.

I have done many unofficial checkout dives for which I paid full freight. It was the first dive of a dive trip, and it was just another dive. Of course, the DM was watching everyone to see who could do what. That impacted what was done the rest of the week--which boats you go on for an operator with multiple boats, how much freedom you get on the rest of the dives, etc.

I think for most reasonably run LDS, they do a discrete checkout on your first dive which is usually a more easy dive. In the case of Truk Lagoon, unless they already know you, they will take you to one of the easier wrecks and do a dive whilst discretely watching all the divers. Once they have established your ability, they then set up the dives according to your ability, so some people may be put on different boats so divers of equal ability are diving together.

That's not to say if you all chose to dive together you cant. The will allow a group to stay together but may limit some of the wrecks you visit.

I have never been forced to pay for a special "check out dive", but understand LDS obligations to at least have an understanding of every divers ability in particular before engaging in any challenging dives.

I just object to mind numbing "You are all idiot divers with no ability until proven otherwise" As I have said previously, I think that's lazy enforcement, or a method to skim an additional check out/skill check dive at low cost so high profit for the LDS. A discrete no extra cost check dive is fine but an enforced skill check sucks.

As others have said I think my move would be a full instructor skill check on the DM/guide, a skill check on the captain and crew. The cheese cuts both ways, and anyway as the internet makes the world a very small place indeed, LDS should be careful not to burn their bridges to a point where they have no clientele.
 
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More than likely that you will require an up-to-date medical form if diving in Spain!

---------- Post added January 11th, 2016 at 09:57 AM ----------

I still cannot understand why you would pay for a week's diving and lose the first day just so the operator can verify you can do a fin pivot. That is my point. Are there really that many bad divers that the resorts need to do this? If so that is a matter for concern in it's own right. Again as best I can see the issue revolves around guided dives. Never having been guided in my life I am not in a position to say whether or not this is something good, bad, or stupid. I think I will continue to avoid venues where I "need" a guide or a check out dive or any other such paraphernalia. I have enjoyed the last 25 years diving and look forward to the next 25 if I live that long and stay able.
A check out dive with skill test is usually carry out in shallow water. And to this days, reverse profile is still being frown upon by most operator. So you can forget anything deeper than the first dive.
As for "guided dive", I have dived in most countries in SE Asia and yet to come across any operator that will allow non-guided dive or solo dive. Queensland is the only exception but it is in Australia.
 
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We do unguided dives all the time in OZ, I think the exception being if you go on a cattle boat, or from a resort. I think in many Asian countries its more about employing the locals more than any safety concerns. In that regard I have no issues as at least the locals are getting some of the tourism dollars.

Note: Queensland is an exception everywhere in the world (spoken like a true Mexican).
 
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As for "guided dive", I have dived in most countries in SE Asia and yet to come across any operator that will allow non-guided dive or solo dive. Queensland is the only exception but it is in Australia.

We do unguided dives all the time in OZ, I think the exception being if you go on a cattle boat, or from a resort. I think in many Asian countries its more about employing the locals more than any safety concerns. ...

Centrals, come visit the UK some time my friend, dive guides here are few and far between. I can see the point in "renting" a DM if you are on your own, such a person provides a buddy and a degree of local knowledge that can be useful. Likewise if you are somewhere new and need help with currents, tides or local conditions that are unusual. Other than that what is the guide there for? If some poor countries need to create employment fair enough - here's my 10 bucks - stay on the boat and have a dive off.
 
Centrals, come visit the UK some time my friend, dive guides here are few and far between. I can see the point in "renting" a DM if you are on your own, such a person provides a buddy and a degree of local knowledge that can be useful. Likewise if you are somewhere new and need help with currents, tides or local conditions that are unusual. Other than that what is the guide there for? If some poor countries need to create employment fair enough - here's my 10 bucks - stay on the boat and have a dive off.

I have yet to come across any dive operator in SE Asia that will let me dive unguided. And I have done two liveaboard trips in Queensland where no guide was provided, no big deal. What I don't understand is that some divers like yourself treat the guide as they are suffering from certain deadly contagious disease!

If they want to see my log book, no problem. If they want to give me a skill test, no problem. It dive guide is provided, no problem. As long as everyone is being treated the same. If the sole purpose of the guide is to get the local employed, who am I going to disagree with!

Interestingly, I have done a few tec wreck liveaboard trips in which guide was not an option.

BTW, I have done Scapa Flow so thank you for your invitation. But no thanks.
 
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... What I don't understand is that some divers like yourself treat the guide as they are suffering from certain deadly contagious disease!...

I am sure they are good people. However I don't need a guide to help me go for a walk or drive to the shops, why do I need one to show me a reef or a wreck? It really is very very unusual in the UK to have a guided dive. I cannot think of one during the first 20+ years of my diving here.

If I am honest I think of it as a holiday resort thing. Exactly the sort of place where they want to you waste a day with a check out and get all flustered about whether you have logged a dive in the last six months. Then let's go look at some really uninteresting rocks and tiny fish.

How do you go about agreeing a decompression schedule and gas mix with the guide?
 
I am sure they are good people. However I don't need a guide to help me go for a walk or drive to the shops, why do I need one to show me a reef or a wreck? It really is very very unusual in the UK to have a guided dive. I cannot think of one during the first 20+ years of my diving here.

If I am honest I think of it as a holiday resort thing. Exactly the sort of place where they want to you waste a day with a check out and get all flustered about whether you have logged a dive in the last six months. Then let's go look at some really uninteresting rocks and tiny fish.

How do you go about agreeing a decompression schedule and gas mix with the guide?

In a lot of places a guide is worth his/ her weight in gold. Muck/ critter dives in Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, ect with out a good guide and you will likely see little to nothing.
 
I am sure they are good people. However I don't need a guide to help me go for a walk or drive to the shops, why do I need one to show me a reef or a wreck? It really is very very unusual in the UK to have a guided dive. I cannot think of one during the first 20+ years of my diving here.

If I am honest I think of it as a holiday resort thing. Exactly the sort of place where they want to you waste a day with a check out and get all flustered about whether you have logged a dive in the last six months. Then let's go look at some really uninteresting rocks and tiny fish.

How do you go about agreeing a decompression schedule and gas mix with the guide?

UK sets no standard on scuba diving and you can't use your own yardstick on everything!! Why don't you try other countries and see if your preference work? But do inquire ahead if you don't want disappointment on unguided dive.

You agree the deco procedure and gas mix before the dive with the guide. And if you are GUE/UTD trained and dive with their accredited centres then there is never an issue.
Be more flexible in life and that might lower your heart beat a wee bit!
Cheers.
 
UK sets no standard on scuba diving and you can't use your own yardstick on everything!! Why don't you try other countries and see if your preference work? But do inquire ahead if you don't want disappointment on unguided dive.

I routinely dive several countries in Europe. What I was thinking of (holiday resorts) were the warm water venues like Red Sea and so on. I have not dived the Red Sea as I have not yet done all the things I want to do that are within driving distance. I need maybe another 20 years then I will move on to try the Red Sea. Now that Eastern Europe is in the EU there are a good few Baltic sites I want to try. Mostly I cannot see the ability to rent a guide never mind the "need" for one as part of the booking.

Be more flexible in life and that might lower your heart beat a wee bit!.

If I actually understood this I might respond.

---------- Post added January 12th, 2016 at 08:22 AM ----------

In a lot of places a guide is worth his/ her weight in gold. Muck/ critter dives in Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, ect with out a good guide and you will likely see little to nothing.

Thanks for that. I'll not bother with the expensive flights and screwing the environment then :wink:
 
Mostly I cannot see the ability to rent a guide never mind the "need" for one as part of the booking.
If I actually understood this I might respond.
Thanks for that. I'll not bother with the expensive flights and screwing the environment then :wink:
1. The guide is part of the deal. Take it or go somewhere else.
2. You are too uptight with your own principal.
3. You can watch from the comfort of your home for those creatures that could only find in certain parts of the world. Less CO2 emission, good on you.
 
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