log book

[Peter69_56]

It has nothing to do with experience, qualification etc etc. A dive guide will be allocated with you/group regardless of who you are!!

And as I said previously I think it often has little to do with providing quality diving and safety, and more on employment for the locals who have no other forms of employment. We are seen as the gringos with all the money, rich people (in their terms) and thus fair game to pay extra in some way.

Whilst at Truk we did a number of tech dives into wrecks. The dive guide went down with us but often did not stay the full dive (given his air stocks and the depth and time). We were happy with what he provided and understand the local requirements and in the end was a win/win for both the locals and us. We got to dive all the wrecks we wished, and he still got paid and no on was put at risk.

This is however significantly different to being forced to do a shallow crap dive, proving all the skills an OW student would get asked to do.

When I was in Bruni on a tech trip we were taken to a 14m "oil rig" read a few big pipes in the water. Second dive was a 4m mud reef. After that dive I had a pointed discussion with the LDS owner, explaining we come over on the basis of tech diving trip which was discussed previously at a seminar in Australia run by them to get clients. At that time they stated they had some 15 tech wrecks to dive. In getting there we found they had about 5 wrecks they could access and even then the Malaysian police were cruising looking to extort money from divers. Their way of dealing with that was to provide 4m mud dives given we had paid for a number of dives.

The discussion ended with me stating either put up or we would leave. We got more wreck dives but not the number or variety we were promised, thus we probably wouldn't go back. Never mind the fact that the dive boats always broke down every trip.

Dont mind giving some money to support the local population, in particular when there is little else for them. However dislike intensely being ripped by a LDS for their profit, or because they are just anal.

 

[Centrals]

My last response.
Do and say whatever you like.
No one ask you to dive with a guide, you have a choice. But don't be surprised that you will be left stranded with nowhere to dive.
It is your holiday, your money.

 

[TMHeimer]

It has nothing to do with experience, qualification etc etc. A dive guide will be allocated with you/group regardless of who you are!!
What you did in New Scotland does not apply to SE Asia. I wonder how many foreign "experienced divers" visiting your domain every year as compare with Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and Thailand?
If you ever join a liveaboard trip to eg. Palau, Komodo in Indonesia, Maldives, Similan in Thailand or Tubatahha in Philippines etc. Please tell the operator that you do not wish the service of the dive guide. I love to see how many boat captain will let you jump into the water without one.
Those places are all frequent by inexperienced warm water divers!!!!! Fat chance.

I think you misinterpreted my meaning. I agree with you completely. I would have no problem with guided dives if I went to SE Asia or anywhere (as long as I can shell collect, which is another matter entirely). I was just pointing out to chrisch that at least one of the reasons (and I figure a major one) that tropical places have checkouts and guides is because they are not dealing with experienced divers as a fair majority of their clients--as opposed to those here and in the U.K., who PROBABLY are more into diving than many "vacation" divers. I suppose there are other reasons as well.

 

[Centrals]

I suppose there are other reasons as well.

I hate to eat my words!!!!
You have the answer mate.

Incidentally, shell collecting is illegal in some countries and you will be surprised how the x-ray machine can see them!!!

 

[Redshift]

Sometimes I don't understand this back and forth argumentation where people seem to not read what others are saying. It's a big world out there. One cannot say "it's done like this" or "this never happens". One may not agree with check dives, guided dives, etc or never have done them, but cannot extrapolate from their own experience to the rest of the world and say they'll never do something (or will always do something).
I have had check dives, shown cards, have cards photocopied and kept in the records, shown log book, had guides... and have also stepped on a boat without showing anything at all.
Sometimes there is a choice (I once took my business elsewhere when in Lanzarote, Safari Diving wanted me to do a beach dive before boat dives), other times there isn't (some friends of mine, after a Red Sea liveaboard, had a flight delayed and spent extra time at a hotel, meaning they could do extra dives. They were still required to do a check dive, with skills!).

 

[chrisch]

My last response.
Do and say whatever you like.
No one ask you to dive with a guide, you have a choice. But don't be surprised that you will be left stranded with nowhere to dive.
It is your holiday, your money.

I think I could spend 10 lifetimes without a check out or a guided dive. I am also fairly sure I could do this in South East Asia too. Just avoid the mass market operators. I will let you know if I ever bother to travel there. I still have another 9 lifetimes' worth to do here.


A very quick look at the web and I can see I can rent a yacht in Thailand with no skipper. (Phuket Yachts - Bareboat sailing charters in Thailand)

I guess the Thai police are not going to arrest me if I jump off the back of it?

 

[Neilwood]

I think you misinterpreted my meaning. I agree with you completely. I would have no problem with guided dives if I went to SE Asia or anywhere (as long as I can shell collect, which is another matter entirely). I was just pointing out to chrisch that at least one of the reasons (and I figure a major one) that tropical places have checkouts and guides is because they are not dealing with experienced divers as a fair majority of their clients--as opposed to those here and in the U.K., who PROBABLY are more into diving than many "vacation" divers. I suppose there are other reasons as well.

You have to be well into diving or certifiable (or possibly both) to dive in some of the conditions here!

Still if you can dive here with the conditions and thick suits/drysuits, you can probably dive almost anywhere else and find it a lot easier.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I log every dive: recreational, training, etc (in open water, that is. I take a current log book with at least my last 100 dives with me. I have never regretted doing so.
DivemasterDennis

 

[TMHeimer]

I think I could spend 10 lifetimes without a check out or a guided dive. I am also fairly sure I could do this in South East Asia too. Just avoid the mass market operators. I will let you know if I ever bother to travel there. I still have another 9 lifetimes' worth to do here.


A very quick look at the web and I can see I can rent a yacht in Thailand with no skipper. (Phuket Yachts - Bareboat sailing charters in Thailand)

I guess the Thai police are not going to arrest me if I jump off the back of it?

Yeah good points here. Validates my point of just contacting where you want to go and get all of the specifics of what they do. Don't go if you don't like some aspect. Sounds simple.

---------- Post added January 13th, 2016 at 06:46 PM ----------

I hate to eat my words!!!!
You have the answer mate.

Incidentally, shell collecting is illegal in some countries and you will be surprised how the x-ray machine can see them!!!

Yeah I know all about those laws. Forget laws and countries-- I've found maybe a half dozen dive ops in all of the Caribbean (including 2-3 in Mexico, where you need a permit) that allow it. So again, I know very well where I will simply not go in the tropics-- like almost everywhere.

 

[chrisch]

Yeah good points here. Validates my point of just contacting where you want to go and get all of the specifics of what they do. Don't go if you don't like some aspect. Sounds simple.
....

Agreed. Also - I should add - being required to have a guide wouldn't stop me at all. If it was a fantastic venue with wonderful diving then you do what the local requirements ask of you. I just fail to understand anyone paying 8-900 US$ for a week's diving then losing the first day to a shallow check out dive and the last day to shallow diving before flying. I also think the idea of a big group of divers being rushed round the dive site in order to get back before the newbie 25 dive OW steam train runs out of gas is my idea of a monumental waste of time and money. Much better to pay a bit more and get as much bottom time as you want, stop and look at what you want not what the guide thinks is interesting. None of which is an issue if you dive independently of course.