Looking to buy a dive computer

[DewTheDewDude]

What do you guys know about this?

DiveSystem - iDive Reb

Can't find any solid reviews on it as of right now, but the thing kind of looks kickass!

With my luck, all these features result in a short battery life and broken instruments.

Not sure if I'll take a chance without getting some solid feedback.


At this point, in my gander my eye sights are on the Oceanic OCi.

I've been quite keen on the Atom 3.1, that everyone is recommending.

But other sources put the OCi on top of that!

Damn, this is an interesting market I've stumbled upon...


Well thanks again fellas! I really do appreciate all the help!

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 05:14 PM ----------

lol I posted too soon...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...unction-idive-computers-divesystem-italy.html

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 05:17 PM ----------

Which now makes sense to me....Jamming all those other little instruments in there compromise the true ability of the ones you need to dive. And those are your life lines, not there for your connivence. You gotta give a little I see...Perhaps I've just been born in the wrong generation of watches, and my standards proceed of what even exists today. The future will hold entire universes on thy wrists!...Godspeed.

 

[JohnnyC]

So you've disregarded everyone's advice and are planning on getting a less functional computer, that costs more money, so you can look like a bellend by wearing a dive computer 24/7?

Now, maybe it's just because I'm a function over form kinda guy, but what's the appeal to the compromise? Is there a legitimate reason other than "I just want it because it's shiny?" Don't get me wrong, that's a perfectly valid reason, as long as you understand that it is a compromise, and don't try and make excuses for it.

 

[stuartv]

First, I would suggest to read this thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...zers/305374-so-you-want-buy-new-computer.html

Second:

- I have an Oceanic Atom 3.0 with wireless AI and have about 60 dives on it over the last year.

- The Atom 3.0 is the same as the Atom 3.1, with one extra feature (Buddy Check). They removed Buddy Check from the 3.0 (due to a patent infringement suit), and renamed it to the 3.1. So, don't shy away from a 3.0 in favor of a 3.1 if you find one. My local dive shop still had a couple of brand new Atom 3.0 kits left earlier this year (and for cheap, on closeout). I don't know if they still do. The point is, you might get lucky and find one.

- Some folks talk badly about wireless AI. I have never had any issue with mine whatsoever. Even with downloading all my dive data, I can see that it (apparently) never loses signal - or at least not more than 1 or 2 seconds at a time.

- If you go to Tech diving (i.e. deco diving), you'll want something more tech oriented than an Atom for your primary computer. But, you'll still want a computer with Gauge mode, or a bottom timer, as a backup. The Atom has gauge mode, so I think it's a fine choice as a starter computer, even for someone who knows they're going to go tech, because the Atom will work just fine as a backup to something like a Petrel, later. That is, in fact, how I use mine (without the wireless AI on my tech rig). The Atom will handle any Nitrox mix.

- I feel like I have gotten a lot of benefit from being able to download my air consumption data from my Atom computer to my laptop and be able to see what my consumption rate is and how it's affected by the different parts of a dive (swimming in a current versus just drifting, versus hovering during a safety stop, etc.).

- I have a Shearwater Petrel 2 and have about 10 or 12 dives on it over the last 2 months.

- Yes, you can read the Petrel display from even 10 feet or more away. Personally, I have never been more than wrist length away from my computer, so being able to read it from 10 feet doesn't seem like a big deal, to me. I have dived with my Atom at night and in quarries with 2 feet or less visibility (and 80+ feet deep - so dark, too). I haven't had any trouble reading my Atom display and seeing everything I have needed to see. So, I am not as in love with my Petrel as other folks are. On recreational dives, I currently carry it as a backup to my Atom. On tech training dives, I use the Petrel as primary and Atom as backup. If I were to fly to the Caribbean tomorrow, I would take both, but I probably wouldn't even dive the Petrel at all, unless my Atom crapped out. The Petrel is just such a brick and it doesn't give any advantage (to ME) on a normal recreational dive. Oh, and I'm 49 years old and wear reading glasses on the surface and have gauge reader lenses in my dive mask.

- I wouldn't pay the extra money for the OCi. It's a nice computer, but the only extra feature is an electronic compass, I think? If so, I would definitely skip the OCi and spend $40 on the Tech compass from Dive Gear Express, which comes with a bungee mount and works very nicely mounted on the back of my right hand. For the dives where I feel like I need to take a compass.

- The Atom 3, in its least conservative mode/setting, is more liberal than the Petrel, even with the Petrel set to OC Rec mode with Low Conservatism. I dived off North Carolina this past weekend and my very first dive the Petrel had me with a 1 minute deco obligation when I was starting my ascent, where my Atom still had me in No Deco time. The Petrel cleared the deco obligation during my ascent, so it didn't affect my dive at all. But, the fact remains that I believe you will get more bottom time with an Atom (albeit, likely only 1 or 2 minutes), than a Petrel - assuming your air consumption is good enough to be able to stay down to your No Deco Limit (or you are diving big tanks, like I do ).

Final caveat: I have been diving exactly 1 year. I have 61 dives logged. Feel free to factor that information into my statements as you see fit.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 10:14 PM ----------

So you've disregarded everyone's advice and are planning on getting a less functional computer, that costs more money, so you can look like a bellend by wearing a dive computer 24/7?

Now, maybe it's just because I'm a function over form kinda guy, but what's the appeal to the compromise? Is there a legitimate reason other than "I just want it because it's shiny?" Don't get me wrong, that's a perfectly valid reason, as long as you understand that it is a compromise, and don't try and make excuses for it.

I can't speak for the OP, but to ME, a computer like an Atom 3 is MORE functional (for recreational diving) than a Petrel.

- The Atom lets me read my tank pressure in the same place I'm looking for all my other relevant info.

- The Atom lets me download and do fine analysis of my gas consumption rates.

- The Atom is much lower profile and hits/gets caught on stuff MUCH less often than the Petrel.

- The Atom (with wireless AI and data cable) was $200 less expensive than buying a Petrel ($550 vs $750).

- The Atom gives me slightly more bottom time.

- The Atom battery is supposed to be changed once per year. I don't have the experience yet, but I think it will require battery changes less often than the Petrel.

- If I really screw up and stay down long enough to be in danger of running out of air, the Atom will warn me, where the Petrel will not. If I get so "out of it" that the only thing I'm paying attention to is the one number on my computer (the "NDL" display), the Atom will probably get me to the surface with 500 psi left in my tank. The Petrel will let me stay until I actually run out. Obviously, if I'm not paying attention to that number and also not paying attention to my pressure gauge, then neither computer is going to help me.

- The Atom display is EASILY readable for any kind of normal recreational dive, for anyone with normal reading vision or anyone that has "old" eyes, like me, with gauge reader lenses - or even the $15 Hyro-Tac stick-on reader lenses from Wal-Mart (which I have in my Atomic mask).

In the end, for recreational diving, I think it is the Petrel that is the compromise.

 

[drrich2]

The ongoing 'A.I. is cool vs. A.I. is crap' debate may endure as long as ScubaBoard does. I'm just a rec. diver, not tec. I dive 2 computers; a console (Cobalt 1) & wrist unit (Oceanic VT3), both A.I. In a nutshell:

1.) On Bonaire trips or when I did a live-aboard, an A.I. computer logs my start & end gas pressures without me having to bother doing so. A nice convenience, and the more dives I do/day, the nicer it is.

2.) I like 'air time remaining.' Yes, it's an on-the-fly varying calculation (a.k.a. rough estimate) of about how much gas time I've got left, but for the rather loosely structured rec. diving I like to do, that's useful.

3.) As you read more threads discussing some of the 'tec. diving mindset,' if I may generalize, you'll see it looks to be different. More thoroughly thought out, precise dive planning, less margin for error, not a dive style were 'winging it' is viable, and it's an activity only a fairly small fraction of divers get into, and the demands for knowledge, skill and meticulous practice are greater. I expect the average tec. diver to be a higher caliber diver than the average rec. diver (allowing there'll be exceptions). You'll see in threads a number of tec. divers have a close idea of their gas consumption through the dive, & glance at the SPG as a backup confirmation. They know their SAC rates.

Is it any wonder somebody like that doesn't see much use in A.I.?

Richard.

 

[JohnnyC]

- The Atom gives me slightly more bottom time.

- If I really screw up and stay down long enough to be in danger of running out of air, the Atom will warn me, where the Petrel will not. If I get so "out of it" that the only thing I'm paying attention to is the one number on my computer (the "NDL" display), the Atom will probably get me to the surface with 500 psi left in my tank. The Petrel will let me stay until I actually run out. Obviously, if I'm not paying attention to that number and also not paying attention to my pressure gauge, then neither computer is going to help me.

I'm not going to bother with the other useless stuff in your post. That's all subjective and not really worth addressing. You like it small? Great. You like AI for tank pressure? Your choice, however misguided.

You realize that "give you more bottom time" means absolutely jack squat. You can get bent like a damn pretzel well within NDL's, so that fallacy of conservative vs liberal means absolutely nothing. If you actually understood anything about decompression you'd realize that. Instead you just give advice like you know what you're talking about.

Seriously, quit doing that. You do it all the time. Stop before your advice gets someone hurt.

Secondly.....
If you're so "out of it" that you're in danger of running out of air that you need a computer to alarm, you deserve to run out of air and deal with those consequences. You want to make big boy dives and talk like you know what you're doing but you're demonstrating totally unacceptable levels of complacency, and advocating a dive computer as the solution to that.

 

[drrich2]

I assume Stuart's talking about the option to set a 'low gas alarm?' I've got one set on my Cobalt, as a backup measure I don't rely on (especially since I don't believe I could hear it wearing a hood), or want to.

DewTheDewDude, only you can decide wether some of the optional 'bells & whistles' like A.I. & low gas pressure alarms are worthwhile to you. I guess they're luxuries some people value & pay for, and some don't.

Richard.

 

[stuartv]

I'm not going to bother with the other useless stuff in your post.

Speaking of useless... You quoted two of my points. If either one was incorrect, please correct me instead of posting a useless rant. As far as I know, the two points I posted were exactly and perfectly correct. Actually, I just re-read my whole post. Please identify any sentence in it that you believe is a false statement. As I did not actually advise anyone on anything, but only gave my observations from my own direct experience, said what I have done, what I prefer, and said what I would do in certain circumstances, I will be very interested to learn what you can identify as a false statement.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 11:53 PM ----------

I assume Stuart's talking about the option to set a 'low gas alarm?'

I was actually talking about the Air Time Remaining calculation and the way the computer normally shows you NDL, but if ATR drops below NDL, then it displays that instead, in the same spot on the display. So, if you are a dummy and not checking your pressure, but you are looking at your computer to know how much time you have left, the computer doing the ATR calculation will get you to the surface. At least, for an Oceanic computer and the way they do ATR calculations (allowing for ascent time and calculating to allow for all that and to arrive on the surface with 500 psi).

 

[JohnnyC]

Speaking of useless... You quoted two of my points. If either one was incorrect, please correct me instead of posting a useless rant. As far as I know, the two points I posted were exactly and perfectly correct. Actually, I just re-read my whole post. Please identify any sentence in it that you believe is a false statement. As I did not actually advise anyone on anything, but only gave my observations from my own direct experience, said what I have done, what I prefer, and said what I would do in certain circumstances, I will be very interested to learn what you can identify as a false statement.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2015 at 11:53 PM ----------

As far as you know they're correct because you don't actually know enough about what you're talking about to know that it's wrong. Yet you have no problem giving your misguided opinion like it's fact. And it's a pattern of behavior. Stop it.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. If you don't understand the fallacy of comparing computer NDL's, you shouldn't be giving out incorrect information like a computer "giving you more bottom time." If you don't understand what "giving you more bottom time" actually means, you shouldn't be diving in the first place. Here's a clue, bent is bent, no matter how much time your computer says you've got left. You don't get anything extra, you just get closer to deco without understanding it. Physics happens, despite what your fancy watch would have you believe.

I was actually talking about the Air Time Remaining calculation and the way the computer normally shows you NDL, but if ATR drops below NDL, then it displays that instead, in the same spot on the display. So, if you are a dummy and not checking your pressure, but you are looking at your computer to know how much time you have left, the computer doing the ATR calculation will get you to the surface. At least, for an Oceanic computer and the way they do ATR calculations (allowing for ascent time and calculating to allow for all that and to arrive on the surface with 500 psi).

Oh yeah? What happens when it alarms and then you encounter a situation where you're stressed, say trouble shooting a lift bag, or current halfway through your ascent spiking your SAC through the roof? Do you have any clue about gas calculations? It would be really disappointing for a diver to hear that alarm, become stressed for whatever reason, and run out of gas because they trusted a computer to do the dive for them.

Read this and then tell me that ATR knows whats up. Rock Bottom and Gas Management for Recreational Divers | Spherical Chicken

You don't have to be a technical diver to understand that you need to have at least a basic understanding of this stuff. Since you don't, you should stop giving out "observations" as advice, especially when it's advocating a hardware system as a solution for complacency.

Maybe you should post less and dive more.

 

[doctormike]

I was actually talking about the Air Time Remaining calculation and the way the computer normally shows you NDL, but if ATR drops below NDL, then it displays that instead, in the same spot on the display. So, if you are a dummy and not checking your pressure, but you are looking at your computer to know how much time you have left, the computer doing the ATR calculation will get you to the surface. At least, for an Oceanic computer and the way they do ATR calculations (allowing for ascent time and calculating to allow for all that and to arrive on the surface with 500 psi).

If you are a dummy and not checking your pressure, you should be snorkeling. I used WAI for long enough to know that the link failed frequently, so it's really not a good idea to dive with the plan "ascend when the computer beeps".

Here's another way of looking at it.

There are people who spend a lot of time thinking about how to optimize diving practices and gear to maximize safety. They are of course some controversies, but overall the trend is towards safer diving. These people are often called "technical divers", but most of the standards that they develop are widely applicable, particularly to what we consider "recreational" diving. They are things like streamlining of gear, situational awareness, attention to buoyancy and trim, and avoiding overweighting.


Some people - new divers and also experienced pros who teach new divers - feel that these standards are for people doing staged decompression dives, and say that things like ATR alarms are OK for people who are doing "only" recreational divers.


I reject this approach. I keep hearing that there is no scuba police, and that it's all personal preference, and that you have to do what works for YOU, yada yada yada. And I guess that's true to some extent, no one is going to enforce any of these standards. But the point of forums like this is that we DO share our opinions, and maybe some of us DO change our practices based on the discussion here - for better or for worse.


So when someone advocates a low gas alarm on their dive computer "just in case I mess up", that's the very definition of a gear solution to a skills problem. And you are going to get pushback and advice from people who spend a lot of time thinking about safe practices. Do with that what you like...

 

[stuartv]

Can anyone quote a post from me that advocates diving where you rely on an alarm to get you out of the water safely? No. But I HAVE noted a functional difference between two computers. One computer has an additional function that the other does not. By definition, that makes one computer more functional than the other. It's just information, folks. We are all (mostly) adults here. People can use that information as they see fit.

If I note that wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle might help you if mess up and crash, does that mean that I'm advocating riding recklessly and relying on a helmet to save you? No. Apparently, you guys would advocate NOT wearing a helmet because it's an equipment solution to a skills problem. Balderdash. More safety nets are better, as long as they don't actually interfere with your performance.