Lot o' Questions

[Venedlor]

Howdy all,
As stated I have a butt load of questions rainging from log books to certification.

First I would like to start out with my log book questions.
When I got my Open Water done my instructor never showed me or filled out my log book so it is blank, I keep track of my dives useing the Sunnto computer log program. Dose this count for my DM (I have 30 something dives) required dives or do I need to fill out my log book?

Next set of questions:
I have used the same instructor for my OW, Nirtox, and AOW. Now I am working on my Rescue Diver and Dive Master. This "gentleman" is not the most orginised person and will not stick to a time table and is not always ready to help when I have problems when we are not training. Should I keep him for Rescue and DM?
There is another instructor who just certified my dad for his OW and he let me sit in on the pool and lake dives to assist. He has at least 20+ years as a trainer, most of that time was as a Navy instructor/rescue diver. He never skiped over a skill and made sure that my Dad was 100%. He and my instructor do not get along and they have stolen students from eachother. Should I swich and piss off my current instructor?

Third and final set:
When I go for my DM do I have to take a week off work (can't afford that) and get it done or can I sit down for a few night a week and chip it away? What certifications should I go for after DM? My LDS had a two week IDC class every month, but I can not take the time off work to do that. I can not afford it. I would love to get my Dive Instructor but I do not think that I can:depressed:. Is there some way that I could do it in a longer time span or do I have to do it when my LDS dose it?


Thanks everyone!!!

 

[USVet96]

Something to note first. Opinions are just that - Opinions. You will need to ultimately do what is best for YOU in YOUR situation.

That being said, on to your questions.

The 1st concerning the log book. I would say it "depends" and the reason I say that is this. If you have done ALL of the training requirements and dives with the SAME instructor, than they will sign off on it without a visual inspection of a log book. However if you use someone else they may want to see a log. Do yourself a favor and just transfer the dives from the watch to the book. That's what I do after every dive. Then continue to do that in the future a d you should be fine.

As far as the instructor ? Goes, here is my opinion. I think if you are feelig slighted or are not pleased with your instructor than you should look elsewhere. Rescue and DM are probably the 2 most essential classes a REC diver is ever going to take. They offer the most skills and require the most commitment from YOU and the INSTRUCTOR. I was in a similar situation. I did my BOW, AOW, and Ean with 1 instructor at 1 shop. I then did a Dive Buddy Training class to assist disabled divers and was BLOWN AWAY at the difference in level of professionalism and what I learned. It was NIGHT and DAY. It made me realize HOW MUCH I did NOT get from MY instructor and made me resent the dive shop for being inadequate. They do Just Enough tompass a PADI Diver and that's all. I mean literally. So when I looked at advancing MY skills, did I want to do it with the shop or with the other instructor. And based on what I said earlier, I chose to go with the other individual. Similar manner as well. He is a military diver and is organized, thorough, knoweledgeable, and effective. I learned MORE from him in 2 dives than I did in 4 classes with the shop lol. Again, personal preference and what YOU think will make you a better and more prepared diver is the BEST option.

And the DM training can be done as you said. I did it that way also (well actually doing it that way now). I have all the materials and studying on my own. Meanwhile, I am doing the dives and training needed on my own time. When I am READY and meet the requirements, all I will have to do is do the test out stuff and arrange academics with my instructor. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying you can OMIT any of the academic stuff. What I'm saying is you can work out any schedule that works for you that the instructor can work with. As long as you meet the requirements and know the material you will be good to go. FWIW, my DM training is going to take me about a YEAR :shocked2: to complete. However, I'm choosing to take my time and be as prepared as possible for what I am doing. The LDS shop where I got my other certs can do the SAME course, if I have the requirements, in 2 days but I know that is NOT what I want.

These are just MY opinions. And they are based on MY experiences personally, what I have been through and told, and what I have heard and read from others.

If something I have said is incorrect I apologize ahead of time. I'm NOT trying to offer inconsistant information or bad data, just help you out.

If you need anything more on a personal level or have any questions like that, shoot me a PM. I'm always here to help.

And like I said, you and I are in the SAME BOAT at the SAME TIME going through the SAME PROCESS lol.

Kind of cool


USVet

 

[aquaregia]

Skip the instructor that you don't like. Work with the one you do. If you think you'll get better training out of one than the other, go with him. Quality of training matters.

Don't do a pro level certification unless you know why. If you aren't planning on teaching fulltime, you will lose (probably a lot of) money doing that. That's fine if it's fun and you can afford it. Keep in mind that you're looking at around $500/yr just to maintain your cert, and that getting more than $10/hr out of it will be challenging. If you aren't planning on doing it full time, you'll need either an arrangement with a shop, or many arrangements for a pool, teaching space, insured equipment, etc. Many HOAs don't allow business to be conducted from home, and there are also significant tax concerns.

I question whether anyone with 30 dives could be an effective DM. Have you done real-life rescues? Air sharing in a stressed situation? Dove in varied locations, conditions and with varied equipment configuration? These sorts of things set your mentality, and watching a demonstration of an air share by someone who's never had to do one is absolutely different to watching someone who has. Have you made bad decisions that could have been very, very bad, but you've gotten lucky? A textbook prohibition is different to advice given by someone who almost hurt themselves violating the rules. Not saying anything personal about you here, I don't know your background.

 

[g1138]

+1 to USVet96's comment, opinions are just opinions. You're not going to find any absolute right answer here, so just take it as advice.

For your log book, it depends on whose reading it. Some like a paper copy, while others will accept a computer log. You'll have to ask the Instructor or LDS you're training with. Be sure you download off your Sunnto, because I know it eventually deletes old dives to make room for more.

I think switching instructors should be your choice. If you don't like your current instructors style or commitment to time schedules etc then switch to an instructor who you're happy with (it doesn't even have to be your Dad's Instructor). If there's some bad blood between the two then I would just be upfront and honest about the switch. Don't try to hide it, otherwise it could come back to bite you.

With getting your Instructor rating here's my advise. Take your time with getting your DM. Ideally you should have all your basic skills nailed down and at near Demonstration Quality before you start your DM. During your DM course you should be working on your leadership skills more than your scuba skills. If you're still struggling with the latter then I would advise you to not take the "exit" exam until you get that sorted.
You should have all your skill sets at demonstration quality before you even get near completing your DM.

After you get your DM rating you should get a little experience as a DM. It'll allow you to test your leadership skills in the real world without the heavy responsibility as an Instructor. Jumping straight into Instructor will be a little overwhelming and you will probably overlook a lot of things as you'll still be learning and gaining experience.
If you really want to teach scuba then TA for a few instructors and do several rounds of Basic, Adv, and Rescue OW. It'll give you a lot of much needed insight when you finally do go for your instructor rating.

 

[rivers]

I would concentrate on diving for fun right and getting more experience before you take any more classes. with 30 dives, and at least 9 of them being courses, you don't have much experience. Find a diving mentor, dive with them for fun, have a bit of skills practice, work on being comfortable in the water and make sure you can have a level head in an emergency. When dives go tits up, it's not being able to handle the emergency that can make things worse

 

[waterpirate]

Opinion only, this is the internet.

Pushing through all those courses with one instructor will yield a myoptic view of everything. I would encourage you to seek out instruction with others to break the chain of "stinkin thinkin". The questions you have are valid, but not the questions that I would expect from a DM candidate. With 30 dives in you have a long time to aquire skills and experiances prior to looking ahead to a DM internship. Slow down and enjoy the ride. Devon pointed out in another thread that the end of the PADI AOW book says "Go out and meet people and go Diving, alot"
Eric

 

[TSandM]

You're a consumer, and instruction is a product. It is your right to purchase a product where and from whom you wish. If you prefer the instructional style of a different instructor, take your classes from him. You may wish to politely inform your old instructor of your change, but you are not under any obligation to do so. (And my husband is an instructor and I'm a DM, so I have a dog in this fight.) Taking classes from a variety of instructors can result in a much broader view, anyway.

Don't rush into professional training. You really owe it to your students or guests to have some good dive skills and some breadth of experience before you begin working. DM will not do much for your own diving abilities -- there are other, much better classes for that.

 

[TMHeimer]

Log book: Filling it out exactly "right" is not necessary, as there are many types of logs. Your Instructor should've at least signed it for the checkout dive. Mine forgot and I got him to sign. Instructors vary in exactly what they want to see for the Rescue and DM courses. Neither of mine wanted to see anything--they trusted me. Ask what you need before the course. I would imagine unsigned computer print outs in most cases will be OK, assuming dives are not to 7 feet for 6 minutes.

Instructor: Agree multiple ones are best. You say he's unorganised. Doing Rescue with him may be practical schedule and time wise. DM is much more extensive. An unorganised Instructor may mean a 2 year course. Based on these posts, I agree he's not the best choice.

Timeline: Yes you can chip away at DM. At our shop both students and instructors usually have full time "day" jobs, so nights and weekends for DM occur. Also, winter comes. This is something you must set up with the shop, or choose another shop (unless no choice, like with me). My instructor got sick, tied up and busy/vacation, so it took me a year and a half. Last Fall our DM course was cancelled for lack of enough candidates. Every shop/instructor is different.

You didn't ask, but I'll say that I agree with those that say you need quite a bit more experience before starting this stuff. I took Rescue with only 26 dives. Learned a lot, but I would've absorbed more if I had more dives beforehand. Though I do think Rescue is very important, and for sure before you get 100 dives in. I started DM with a little over 150 dives, and that seemed about right for me.

 

[boulderjohn]

When I got my Open Water done my instructor never showed me or filled out my log book so it is blank, I keep track of my dives useing the Sunnto computer log program. Dose this count for my DM (I have 30 something dives) required dives or do I need to fill out my log book?

Your Suunto log can be printed out, at which point it is no different from a log book.

I have used the same instructor for my OW, Nirtox, and AOW. Now I am working on my Rescue Diver and Dive Master. This "gentleman" is not the most orginised person and will not stick to a time table and is not always ready to help when I have problems when we are not training. Should I keep him for Rescue and DM?
....
He never skiped over a skill and made sure that my Dad was 100%. He and my instructor do not get along and they have stolen students from eachother. Should I swich and piss off my current instructor?

Assuming we are talking about PADI, filling out the log book for the training dives you did is required for the instructor, and your instructor didn't do it. What else did he skip in that instruction? You say he is disorganized as well. Is that where you really want to go for your professional training?

Third and final set:
When I go for my DM do I have to take a week off work (can't afford that) and get it done or can I sit down for a few night a week and chip it away? What certifications should I go for after DM? My LDS had a two week IDC class every month, but I can not take the time off work to do that. I can not afford it. I would love to get my Dive Instructor but I do not think that I can:depressed:. Is there some way that I could do it in a longer time span or do I have to do it when my LDS dose it?

I started my DM work when I had about 100 dives, and I thought I was pretty good. I soon realized that I was not nearly as good as I thought I was. An instructor should have solid experience in a variety of dive environments. I agree with all of those who are telling you to focus on getting more experience--much more experience--before even thinking about starting the DM work. When you start the program, absolutely do chip away at it. I worked on mine over about a 3-4 month span.

 

[MarkHerm]

Don't rush into professional training. You really owe it to your students or guests to have some good dive skills and some breadth of experience before you begin working. DM will not do much for your own diving abilities -- there are other, much better classes for that.

+1.
I know you didn't ask about your plan in general but advice never hurts: With 30ish dives under your belt now you shouldn't consider DM training IMO. Even though it is possible with respect to the standards, it does not mean that it is a good thing to do. DM is a pro rating implying you are going to take responsibility for other divers to some degree. To be honest, I don't belive that anyone can seriously do this with that limited amount of expierence. And as possible future client, I personally wouldn't go with a DM who has only done some dozens dives. If you are not planning to work with clients in the dive industry at the moment, DM is probably not the right course for you. Therefore, I'd go for more experience first. If you like taking classes to personally improve as a diver, please check for other option (this includes mentoring, private training, GUE/UTD Fundamentals, NAUI Master Scuba diver or any other classes that are taught by good instructors). Another very good thing to do IMO is to stop doing courses for a while to simply grab a buddy and go out diving. It's a lot of fun and will result in lots of experience.

Good luck!