Most disturbing phone call I've gotten in a long time

[Jim Lapenta]

No there is not state board. The industry regulates itself. The RSTC is supposed to oversee training issues of its members but they are nothing more than a rubber stamp to whatever its members decide to do. They give the impression of an official regulatory body but this just to keep the goverment off of the backs of the industry. They have no power at all to do anything. There may be some consumer stuff here but if the club is not charging for the instruction per se that may be iffy. They claim to have instructors as memebers but none of these seem to be capable of issuing certs. That's why they send them to shops and independents hoping to find a sucker or someone with no scruples to issue a card. It would be very easy to take 150-200 bucks and have them take a test, do a couple pool sessions, and a few checkouts and give them a card. And that is what seems to have been going on. But my sense of values says its not worth it and anyone who thinks it is has no business in this industry being allowed to teach. The instructor doing this whoever they are needs to be shut down.

 

[tstormdiver]

It is my problem in that he came to me to issue a cert and I am now personally aware of the situation. Up until this point I had heard rumors I could not personally verify. That is no longer the case. I may not have a legal obligation to do anything but I do have a very strong moral and ethical obligation to do whatever I can to stop this and protect those who may be hurt (including the agency and school) by the actions of these people.

That is true, Jim, on so many levels. There doesn't seem to be enough people who take that stand. I applaud your fortitude.

 

[dgreenh]

Wow, that IS pretty disturbing. I can't believe this is happening.. well, on second thought, yes I can, the world is full of greedy people and lazy people. When they get together, this kind of stuff happens. I guess being in a small community with a small group of instructors I would have never thought about a scam like this happening. I would be calling the school district and PADI too.

The school district should cut them off from all activity at the pool immediately. They should not have even been allowed in there without liability insurance. That is the fault of the school district. Even if they were in there purely for recreational purposes of the club, insurance should be required. I know as a tax payer, I don't want some idiot suing the school and costing me money over something like this. About all that PADI could do would be an expulsion of the divemaster's credentials. I'm not sure what good that would do, it doesn't appear that any of the "students" are checking credentials anyway.

It is amazing what people will do to try to save a buck... or make a buck. Scuba is safe with proper training but it can be deadly if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[cloudflint]

I find it slightly scary to think that I could end up buddied with and relying on someone trained like that. If someone wanted to go get trained by someone who wasn't qualified and go off diving that's their choice, I've met people like that and I take them as they come (Ive met people who never trained under an instructor and are exelent divers, and others who never trained under and instructor and are terrible) but to essentially con people by telling them that you are going to teach them and get them qualified to dive then put their lives at risk is just bad.

Thinking about the situation, if these guys are basically training people (albiet badly) and not taking money off them then sending them off to a qualified instructor to be certified it sounds like it would be very hard to take them down since it dosent seem like they are doing anything illegal. If they aren't directly taking money for training people would it count as fraud apart from in the obvious ethical way? It sounds bad but the most effective way of taking them down would probably be if a trainee under their care was injured or had an accident then sued them. Since they aren't qualified they would have no liability cover and would essentially be screwed.

Hopefully you can at least stop their access to a pool, since they have no liability insurance i doubt anyone would want them training in their pool. I wish you the best of luck dealing with these guys.

 

[TMHeimer]

Scary stuff. Obviously the DMs and Instructor should be terminated, but as dgreenh says, the students probably wouldn't care anyway about their credentials. Obviously PADI has legal grounds since these guys are using PADI materials. As pointed out, there isn't much else that could be done legally as scuba is not gov't. regulated. To my knowledge it's not even illegal for anyone to fill a non-cert. diver's tank. Seems like this situation leaves things pretty wide open for stuff like this to take place. But we don't want the gov't. poking their nose into diving either. Tough problem. Maybe the only answer is for anyone wishing to learn scuba to really check out who they choose to teach them. All of us had to simply trust an agency when we did OW, but even if you know nothing, I guess that's still a lot better than trusting 2 guys working alone. Buyer beware.

 

[mdb]

Well, Jim Lapenta is a stand up guy and I do not think this particular issue will be left unresolved.

The problem is not just in Jim's backyard. It is nationwide and it has become worse as the economy has gone south and some agencies and some of their instructors are looking for revenue without regard to minimum standards to insure a newly certified diver can actually dive.

Do you think you could even begin to fly a plane solo with a one day course?

Diving is not flying, I know; But it is not something, IMO, that can be learned in a very short course taught in a very short time.

 

[cocoajoe]

Yep, sounds bad. But if you're going to do a crusade, why not the so-called legit agencies that churn unsafe divers out like a cookie cutter. Seems to me, you're talking about a few divers as opposed to who knows how many that are turned loose with random precision.

Use whatever stroke you think you have to make a meaningful change. Just sayin'.

 

[flots am]

...because...

1) It could get someone hurt.
2) It lowers public faith in the scuba industry.
3) It encourages simular behaviour, thus undermining the the activities of legitimate instructors.
4) It is fraud...a crime... and some people choose to display civic duty in reporting it.
5) It adds weight to any arguements for further government legislation.
6) It puts more ill-trained divers onto dive boats and they could be your next buddy.
7) It's just plain annoying that there are cowboys who would act like that.

All that's happened is that Jim has heard of Inactive DMs "teaching" SCUBA, and some shops/instructors violating standards. Without firsthand knowledge most of this is worthless, with the exception of the inactive DMs teaching, which is worthless even with firsthand knowledge, since PADI can't do anything to them except revoke their inactive cards.

As for the rest, I guess I'm not all that upset because I see little difference between a much too fast class that doesn't cover everything and an even faster class that covers a little less.

The DMs without insurance are their own problem. They can be as stupid as they want.

flots.

 

[ReefHound]

I would contact the school. Let them know what is going on. If they aren't interested, let them know you'll go to the school district, the state board of education, the press, or whoever.

 

[laguna230diver]

i dont think flots gets it