Mx10 & Ys40a

[Ronjac]

Dear Divers,

Recently I had a chance to tryout (first time) my Sea & Sea MX10 with external strobe YS 40A. The problem is that external strobe is not working underwater. When I tested the camera/strobe (on land without film) external/internal strobes are working properly. What could be the problem?

Thanks in advance.

 

[herman]

Welcome to the board.
What is it not doing?

 

[Ronjac]

Hi Herman,

It is strange I know, but the external strobe YS40A is not working when the camera is loaded with film and used underwater. When there is no film in the camera and on land external strobe works ok (reacts on aperture knob). Probably I am doing something wrong when loading a film.
I have made three rolls of film (underwater) using internal flash because I could not activate the external one by turning the aperture knob.Like there is no communication between camera and YS40A when sinked in to the water (new camera and strobe).

Thanks for your reply.

 

[herman]

Interesting. Some random thoughts, first make sure the optical sender and reciever on the camera and strobe are clean. They are the clear areas just below the attachment point of the strobe. Any dirt or other material in that area could be enough to prevent the strobe from firing. Is the strobe properly attached and completely seated? Are the optical sencers in alignment? When taking pictuers with the strobe on, DO NOT use the camera setting with the lighting bolt, those are for use without the strobe. Change the batteries in both the camera and strobe, weak batteries can do stange things. Do you have the film in correctly and is the camera in Wind mode? If it's in R(ewind) mode it will not take pictures. Is the film advance indicator,black/orange/silver thing moving when the film advances?
Finally, is the orange lamp on the strobe glowing? If not the strobe is not charged for some reason. If not, you have bad batteries or a bad strobe.

 

[herman]

Also, define not working correctly a little better for me. Is it not firing at all or are your pictures too dark. Are you trying to use the stobe in auto or manual ? Does the orange indicator on the stobe go off for a short period after you press the shutter release?

 

[Ronjac]

I am pretty shure that strobe was attached properly, optical sensors were clean and aligned, with new batteries (strobe/camera). Film was in (W)ind mode on 100 ASA. Only film advance indicator,black/orange/silver thing was hardly moving (hard to notice) when the film advances but, I had no problem and all three rolls were properly rewinded?
Finally, the orange lamp on the strobe was/is glowing when ready and you can hear charging sound when lamp turns off.

To be more specifik, YS40A could not fire underwater altough internal flash could. I have tried (six dives) to engage the strobe by using Manual and Auto mode with diferent apertures. My instructor did the test (ON LAND):

1. He selected Auto mode, deteached strobe from the camera and pointed his camera with flash towards the sensor on the front side of the strobe. When he fires his flash, the YS40A fires as well.

2. The strange thing is that YS40A will do the same when in Manual mode. Detached from the camera, in manual mode, the sensor reacts and fires YS40A when some other strobe is pointed and fires towards it (ON LAND)?

3. When I use camera setting with the lighting bolt, with attached YS40A both flashes fire -ON LAND!

I assume this is OK for Auto mode but for Manual? Does it mean that whenever strobe is ON regadles in which mode it will fire if triggered by another strobe? It's not logical to me. Instructor told me that I could hold the strobe in one hand and camera in other and use both flashes (more dramatic pictures). What's the use of MXTENDER then? Why is not working underwater?

Again, I hope that I have made some strange combination of strobe modes and apertures and got confused. I will play with camera and strobe, insert film, sink it into bathtub and get back to you.

Best regards.

 

[herman]

The sensor on the front of the strobe is to adjust the stobes output power in auto mode but it has nothing to do with the actual firing of the strobe, that is the job of the small sensor on the side under the latch.

MX extender.....are you also using one of these? If so, take it off and use the camera and strobe only, the way Sea and Sea made it to work. A bad, dirty or misaligned fiber cable can give you lots of strange problems, you need to eliminate it as a source of the problem. If you are using one, I would bet it's your problem.

Sure you can fire the strobe off another strobe (flash) as long as the sensor under the latch can "see" the other strobe. The trouble is the internal flash is in a bad location for UW use, which is the reason you should NOT use any of the F-stops with the lighting bolt when UW. When working properly the YS-40 will fire in any F-stop. If you use the internal flash for UW shots that are more than a foot or so from the camera you will get lots of backscatter (snow looking stuff) in your picture. In UW photography you want to set the strobe light to come in from an angle, not straight on. The purpose of the MX extender is to allow you to move the YS-40 to a better angle than is possible with it hooked directly to the camera.

By the way, there is no need to have film in the camera when testing out the strobe, it will fire fine with no film in the camera. No need to waste film at this point. Just make sure you have the camera in W (wind ) mode and snap away. As far as the camera is concerned you have an endless roll of film in the camera.

 

[Ronjac]

Thanks Herman for clarifying this to me. The manual is so poor and I don't have any books yet. All my knowledge is from the NET and that's how I herad for MX extender but I'm not using one.
I Didn't have chance to test the camera/strobe UW but I will let you know.

Best regards.

 

[Ronjac]

Dear Herman,

I have tested the camera (in my bathtub, without film) and both the YS40a and MX10 works! Once I set the aperture to proper number, without the lighting bolth, the strobe fires. I have no idea why it was not working during my dives-it must be my fault due to the lack of experience.

Can you please advice me how to use close up lens and diffuser since I have those accessories. I understand that I have to use different aperture than when camera is in "normal" mode. Maybe some tips abouth technic.

Thanks and best regards.

 

[herman]

Glad to hear the strobe is working. The absolute best advise is to try and find a copy of "The New Guide To Sea and Sea" by Joe Liburdi and Cara Sheman. This book has been out of print for a while but it is by far the best book for learning about the MX-10. It goes over all the attachments, setting and how to use each one (and no you can't have mine ) You may can find one in a library.

The close up lens (as I flip through my copy of NG to S&S) changes the minimum focal distance of the MX-10 from 4 feet to 1.6 ft/18 in (underwater).
The number one rule in UW photography is to get close, get closer, get even closer and when you think you are too close you are about the right distance. Trouble is with the standard lens on the MX-10, around 4 ft is as close as you can get and still be in focus. To make matters worse, your stobe will only effectively light out to 4, maybe 5 ft. So to over come these problems you can add a close up lens. Now your focal distance is from around 1.5 ft to around 4 ft @ F-22, right in the strobes proper lighting range. The depth of fields are changed as well, from NGto S&S :
F-stop Depth of Field (distance from the lens that is in focus)
f-4.5- 1.6 to 1.8 ft
f-5.6- 1.4 to 1.9 ft
f-8- 1.4 to 2.0 ft
f-11 1.3 to 2.2 ft
f-16 1.2 to 2.7 ft
f-22 1.0 to 3.6 ft

The how and why to use which lens, F-stop, diffuser and the like gets to be a long discussion. Find a copy of the book above and read it. It does a much better job of explaining it than I could do.
As a starting point with the close up lens, strobe in auto and 100 speed film try shooting at F-8. Be sure to keep your subjects within in the 1.5 to 3 ft.

Without the closeup lens, 100 speed film, strobe in auto try shooting at f-4.5. Remember your focus and strobe lighting zone is from around 3.5 to 5.5 ft.