Need some advice regarding amount of lift for a wing

[Freeflyer]

Hi all,

I'm slowly putting together my bp/wing system. I need to decide how much lift I need for the system and would appreciate some advice.

I dive warm water (borneo/malaysia) in a 3mm full suit. With a Zeagle ranger and single Al80 I use 4-5kg.

I'm thinking of getting an aluminium plate for travel and single cylinders, and a steel plate for doubles. I'll be using a pair of Al80's for the twinset.

What sort of amount of lift would be reasonable. Could I use the same wing for both a single and a twinset.

Thanks,

Justin.

 

[The Kraken]

Freeflyer,
These questions have been discussed to infinity and beyond.
There are numerous posts and threads regarding your interrogatory.
The net results would probably yield the following convention of conclusions:

No, you need two different wings for singles and doubles.
The wing for singles should be somewhere in the 30-35# lift category.
The wing for doubles should be 45# of lift or greater.

If I were you, I would avoid asking about wings with greater than 65# of lift.

These questions will, no doubt, initiate, once again, a long and protracted debate about the relative properties, benefits, advantages and disadvantages of the numerous wings available for your purposes.

Good luck in your selection.

Safe dives . . .
. . . safer ascents

 

[Diver0001]

You might be able to use the Diverite rec wing for both of those setups.

If memory serves it has about 20kg of lift, which is more than you´ll need but it´s not too big for a single 80 and not too small for a twin 80.

R..

 

[VinceDS]

FreeFlyer,

Will agree with Kraken on the points made.

1. You will need two different wings - one for singles and one for doubles. While the Rec wings are sold for use with singles and doubles, you will find them inadequate for use w/ decent sized doubles. For doubles would go for the D-rite Classic wing. For singles go for venture wing (30lbs lift) or trek wing (40lbs lift).

 

[Jim Baldwin]

Freeflyer,

Diving in the warm waters of Cozumel about four times a year I wear a Dive Rite plasitc backplate, a 3mm full suit and dive with a 95 lp steel tank. I wear no additional weight and use a 40 lb. single tank wing.

When I dive with doubles PST HP 120's and two AL 80 stage bottles I use a Dive Rite SS backplate and 55 lb. classic wing.

Beside the lift difference the single wing is cut narrower so that it does not taco around the tank. I have dove the Classic wing with a single tank. It will work it just looks a little big. A 30 to 40 pound wing should be more than enough for a single tank.

A 50 to 60 lb. wing should certainly meet your needs for a set of AL 80's.

 

[Freeflyer]

Thanks all, that pretty much settles me on looking for two sets of wings. For now, budget decides I just set up for the twins and use my zeagle for singles, until I can get the rest of it all together.

I'll look at the dive-rite wings.

Cheers,

Justin.

 

[Stirling]

If budget is a concern, consider whether you really need two backplates, one for travel and one for doubles. For only a few more pounds, first consider whether you wouldn't rather travel with the steel backplate and have that weight distributed more evenly on your body - you'll need at least that much weight with either a single or double tanks, anyway, and will have to pick it up locally if you don't travel with it.

If you really don't want to travel with the steel backplate, why not get the aluminum backplate and use it for both travel and doubles? With the aluminum plate, you'll obviously need to carry some other weight someplace else, and a little bit more with aluminum doubles, but the cost of the steel backplate that you don't buy can go toward paying for the second wing. In any case, you might want to think about one plate and two wings, instead of two plates and two wings.

And don't limit your search to Dive Rite. There are a lot of other options, including some very good wings (and plates), with some difference in price. Search around this forum and you will run across the names of other suppliers (Deep Sea Supply, Fred T, Hammerhead, and others) that you might want to check out.

 

[The Kraken]

Hey, Freeflyer,
I don't know what the lift capacity of your "Ranger" is, but you can remove the bladder from the Zeagle harness and attach it to your back plate to use as your single's wing.

Before I got my "Venture" wing, I used the bladder from my Zeagle "Tech" as my temporary wing.


.... Newsflash !!!!

Just checked one of my research sources and I see that the "Ranger" bladder generates approximately 45# of lift. You easily could use this bladder for your single wing.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hi all,

I'm slowly putting together my bp/wing system. I need to decide how much lift I need for the system and would appreciate some advice.

I dive warm water (borneo/malaysia) in a 3mm full suit. With a Zeagle ranger and single Al80 I use 4-5kg.

I'm thinking of getting an aluminium plate for travel and single cylinders, and a steel plate for doubles. I'll be using a pair of Al80's for the twinset.

What sort of amount of lift would be reasonable. Could I use the same wing for both a single and a twinset.

Thanks,

Justin.

Justin,

Much good advice here already. While there are wings in theory that can accomodate both single and double tanks, the issue here is more about shape than lift capacity. The center section of a wing does not inflate, and on a single wing this section is narrow compared to a doubles wing. The narrow section on a single wing limits how much it wraps the tank, but if used with doubles the tanks themselves would trap the inflatable section of the wing. This would reduce the available lift. If you use a doubles wing with a single tank it will wrap up along the tank, making venting difficult.

The issue of lift is not as simple as "singles use XX lbs and doulbes use XXX lbs. In practice this may be the typical solution, but how can you calculate it?

Wing lift, or "buoyancy compensator" lift is all about your exposure suit. Pretty much the only thing that needs "compensation" is your wetsuit. It compresses and looses buoyancy, from some maximum value at the surface down to zero at about 165 FSW.

Assuming you are properly weighed, eye level at the surface with no gas in your wing, the most buoyancy you can loose is the initial buoyancy of your suit. Take your suit and rollit up and see how much lead it take to sink just it. A 3mm won't take very much, if I had to guess 15-20lbs. And this is the max you can loose, above 165 fsw your suit is still somewhat buoyant!

Now what about doubles? If you add enough gear so that you can't be neutral at the surface with no gas in your wing, you need more lift. (This is potentially dangerous as well, if your so negative you maynot be able to swim your rig to the surface if your wing fails, but that's another discussion)

What ususally follows with doubles is more exposure suit. If your diving deeper / longer etc. with more gas you usually have more exposure suit, i.e thicker wetsuit or more undies under the dry suit. If so you need more weight to get neutral, and you need more lift to overcome the greater potential for loss of buoyancy.

Good luck,


Tobin George

 

[jonnythan]

FYI, you can buy a brand new Dive Rite Classic doubles wing from LeisurePro for under $200. Compared to the cost of the actual doubles, another regulator, etc, the $200 is almost negligible

You can also pick up used wings for very little. Owning 2 wings is not a huge investment and shouldn't be considered.