New diver - questions and thoughts on BC setup

[noah977]

Hello,

I'm a newly certified PADI OW diver. (With a massive 8 open water dives in total!)

I've been using the standard rental ScubaPro jacket style BC provided by my local dive shop. it seemed OK. On my last dive, one of the DM loaned me his Zeagle Convert BC, and I found the back inflation awesome. It felt much more comfortable in the water, was easier to balance, and I like have my chest area more open. Felt "free-er".

So, that led me to reading about different BC setups, and I stumbled on all the interesting stuff about a back-plate and wings. From what I've read online, and watched on youtube, this seems like a great way to go. Also, most of my dives will be travel dives, so a bp/w setup should be lighter to carry on the plane. Lastly, I really like the idea of a minimalist setup. It fits how I approach a lot of things in life.

That leads to a few questions for the group:

1) Does the brand matter much for things like harness and backplate. I've seem some by Diving Express that are rather inexpensive, and some by Zeagle that cost a ton more. Is this a case of "you get what you pay for", or is the quality mostly equal?

2) Aluminum or Stainless back plate? 90% of my dives will be in SE Asia oceans with a 3mm wetsuit or even a shorty wetsuit. I'm 6'1" and weigh 185 lbs. With the rental vest BC and rental tanks, I used 9 lbs on a weight belt. (Note: I like the idea of a weight belt, over a heavier BP, so I can ditch weight in an emergency.)

3) Thoughts on using a "pure" harness (single piece of continuous nylon) verses some of the comfort harnesses I've seen? My intuition is that a backpad and some padding on the shoulder straps would make for a more comfortable dive.

4) I don't really plan on becoming a cave diver or super technical diver. A lot of the BP/W setups I've seen focus on this pure approach, the long hose regulator setup, etc. Any thoughts on using a BP/W with a standard recreational setup? (shorter hose, yellow octopus, etc.)

5) From what I've read and seen, a full doughnut style wing seems like be best option. Something without bungee cords. Thoughts?

In short, I want something minimalist, light weight for travel, and ideally back inflation. Looking for something comfortable, but simple. (And, hopefully not too expensive - buying dive gear ads up quickly)

I'm going on my first dive trip, 5 days in The Philippines, in about 4 weeks. Am debating if I should rush to purchase a new setup before I go, or wait until I return. I hate the idea of rushing, but it would be nice to dive with a new rig instead of the rental gear. If I wait until after the trip, I'll have more time to shop, but also don't know when the next trip will be, so the gear will just sit in the bag unused for a while.

Apologies for the long list of questions. I live in Hong Kong, and the local dive shops here all aggressively push the recreational ScubaPro and Cressi vest BCs. Hard to get any real advice on alternative setups. It is almost like ScubaPro has close to a monopoly over here.

Any and all feedback welcome.

Thank You

 

[buddhasummer]

Welcome to SB. Brand doesn't really matter as far as plates go. Pure harness is all you need. Stay away from bungeed wings, not necessary. A steel plate offsets the buoyancy swing when using the common Al 80 tank. I'm a recreational diver only and would never go back to a "conventional" BC. Wing selection requires a little more thought and you may to use an STA (single tank adaptor) depending on what wing and plate combination you decide on. Personally for warm water I use an Oxycheq 18lb wing, it's my favorite wing. If you want anymore info ask away.

---------- Post added October 25th, 2015 at 02:06 AM ----------

Re hoses I use and like, a 22" bungeed back up, either a 40" primary with adaptor routed under arm or a 5' hose. A 24" HP hose with a simple brass and glass SPG. I find this configuration works well for recreational diving. You can use a "standard" Padi set up although I'd recommend the above.

 

[noah977]

Welcome to SB. Brand doesn't really matter as far as plates go. Pure harness is all you need. Stay away from bungeed wings, not necessary. A steel plate offsets the buoyancy swing when using the common Al 80 tank. I'm a recreational diver only and would never go back to a "conventional" BC. Wing selection requires a little more thought and you may to use an STA (single tank adaptor) depending on what wing and plate combination you decide on. Personally for warm water I use an Oxycheq 18lb wing, it's my favorite wing. If you want anymore info ask away.

That makes sense. A metal plate should be fairly similar regardless of who makes it. No need to spend $150 on a Zeagle branded one.

As for the steel plate, I'm leaning more toward aluminum, with some weight on a belt. That way, I have something to ditch if things ever get bad. We a SS plate, I have nothing to ditch.

As for wing selection. Is 18lb enough? The BC jackets all seem to have 35-40lb of lift, so I assumed that I'd need at least 25-30. Am I way off? How does one calculate this?

Thanks!!!

 

[buddhasummer]

Most plates weigh around 2.5kg, in a 3mm you'd still likely need a couple or three kgs. An 18lb wing limits you to light suit and minimum weighting. A larger -25-30 is more versatile and in the case of Oxycheq the difference between an 18 and 30 is not significant.

---------- Post added October 25th, 2015 at 02:17 AM ----------

Your wing needs to float without you in it and offset any loss of buoyancy of suit at depth, which ever is the greatest.

 

[noah977]

Most plates weigh around 2.5kg, in a 3mm you'd still likely need a couple or three kgs. An 18lb wing limits you to light suit and minimum weighting. A larger -25-30 is more versatile and in the case of Oxycheq the difference between an 18 and 30 is not significant.

---------- Post added October 25th, 2015 at 02:17 AM ----------

Your wing needs to float without you in it and offset any loss of buoyancy of suit at depth, which ever is the greatest.

That makes sense. So a 25-30 should be more than enough, and hopefully won't "taco".

 

[buddhasummer]

Yes, in shorts or a 3mm 25-30 will be more than enough.

---------- Post added October 25th, 2015 at 02:27 AM ----------

Look at the Oxycheq wings, they are narrow and long. I don't know of any wings that size "taco" to any great extent.

 

[noah977]

Awesome. Thanks for the advice.

 

[buddhasummer]

You're welcome, have fun shopping and when you see something you're interested in post back as you'll likely get some user reviews. If buying online I'd recommend, DiveGearExpress, Cave Adventurers or DiveRightInScuba all good people. If buying locally send a PM to either Centrals or Hongrace both are members of SB, nice guys and both live in HongKong so may be able to assist with local shopping. Good luck.

 

[danvolker]

Hello,

I'm a newly certified PADI OW diver. (With a massive 8 open water dives in total!)

I've been using the standard rental ScubaPro jacket style BC provided by my local dive shop. it seemed OK. On my last dive, one of the DM loaned me his Zeagle Convert BC, and I found the back inflation awesome. It felt much more comfortable in the water, was easier to balance, and I like have my chest area more open. Felt "free-er".

So, that led me to reading about different BC setups, and I stumbled on all the interesting stuff about a back-plate and wings. From what I've read online, and watched on youtube, this seems like a great way to go. Also, most of my dives will be travel dives, so a bp/w setup should be lighter to carry on the plane. Lastly, I really like the idea of a minimalist setup. It fits how I approach a lot of things in life.

That leads to a few questions for the group:

1) Does the brand matter much for things like harness and backplate. I've seem some by Diving Express that are rather inexpensive, and some by Zeagle that cost a ton more. Is this a case of "you get what you pay for", or is the quality mostly equal?

2) Aluminum or Stainless back plate? 90% of my dives will be in SE Asia oceans with a 3mm wetsuit or even a shorty wetsuit. I'm 6'1" and weigh 185 lbs. With the rental vest BC and rental tanks, I used 9 lbs on a weight belt. (Note: I like the idea of a weight belt, over a heavier BP, so I can ditch weight in an emergency.)

3) Thoughts on using a "pure" harness (single piece of continuous nylon) verses some of the comfort harnesses I've seen? My intuition is that a backpad and some padding on the shoulder straps would make for a more comfortable dive.

4) I don't really plan on becoming a cave diver or super technical diver. A lot of the BP/W setups I've seen focus on this pure approach, the long hose regulator setup, etc. Any thoughts on using a BP/W with a standard recreational setup? (shorter hose, yellow octopus, etc.)

5) From what I've read and seen, a full doughnut style wing seems like be best option. Something without bungee cords. Thoughts?

In short, I want something minimalist, light weight for travel, and ideally back inflation. Looking for something comfortable, but simple. (And, hopefully not too expensive - buying dive gear ads up quickly)

I'm going on my first dive trip, 5 days in The Philippines, in about 4 weeks. Am debating if I should rush to purchase a new setup before I go, or wait until I return. I hate the idea of rushing, but it would be nice to dive with a new rig instead of the rental gear. If I wait until after the trip, I'll have more time to shop, but also don't know when the next trip will be, so the gear will just sit in the bag unused for a while.

Apologies for the long list of questions. I live in Hong Kong, and the local dive shops here all aggressively push the recreational ScubaPro and Cressi vest BCs. Hard to get any real advice on alternative setups. It is almost like ScubaPro has close to a monopoly over here.

Any and all feedback welcome.

Thank You

One of the things I hate most about BC's like the Scubapro Stab Jackets, is the extremely high drag you experience with them, as soon as you try to swim any distance, at anything beyond the slowest speeds possible.
On the other side of the equation, there are bp/wing systems, that are very slick, and allow you to move around much more like you were evolved for the ocean

I personally like Halcyon, and use an 18 pound wing, the lowest drag choice there is. There are many good brands, but I'd stick with real BP/wing systems, not poor compromises like back inflates that are mass manufactured, and that pretend to be everything you want.

DSS is certainly one line you need to check on, and Tobin of DSS is on SB regularly, and should be a great resource for you regarding bp/wings, and about how much lift you really need in a wing.

Most divers are buying much more buoyant wings than they should, because they think it is OK to consider the use of extremely buoyant wetsuits ( which need huge amounts of lead near surface, and then become quite heavy at 70 Feet deep and below). If you were using an 18 pound wing, for tropical locales ( water down to 72 degrees..or warmer), you would make smart choices on tanks and wetsuits, and you would always be slicker than the divers that make the poor choices and have to throw huge amounts of lead on, or have big wings to support tanks which are heavy enough to let you walk on the bottom like a hard hat diver ...

My 18 pound wing is obviously great with an Al80, but I can also dive with tanks as heavy as an HP120...and still find it easy to get dead neutral at 70 feet, or 130 feet, or whatever depth I choose to go to. Part of this, is my choice of a 3mil wetsuit that has very low buoyancy...so I do not have any need to wear any weight other than the weight of the steel backplate and tank. With an HP 120, near bottom at neutral buoyancy, the 18 has much of it's volume utilized to get you neutral, but still has plenty left should you need to become significantly bouyant at depth ( which really you should NOT)....With an Al 80, I barely need more than a puff of air in the wing at the same depth.

There is a safety aspect as well.....with the ultra low drag bp/wing, the diver can move around in big currents quite easily ( given some understanding of "how" and "where" you move in big currents...being a white water kayaker as another sport, helps provide you with an intuitive understanding of how NOT to work, and how to use the bottom, structures, and current to your advantage). With a slick low lift wetsuit, and 18 pound wing, you can move around more like the fish all around the high current site.....whereas the diver with the high buoyancy wetsuit, 30 pounds of lead, huge heavy tank, and massive 40 pound or more lift BC, get's literally "Blown around" like a "leaf in the wind". Currents are not always expected. When they come out of nowhere, this is a recipe for serious problems and emergencies when you have a bunch of high drag, barely get out of their own way divers, with no ability to deal with the current....In the anchor diving scenario, typically many of these high drag divers, have a terrible time getting back to the anchor line....they might use up far too much air in trying to ( while in your 18, you might easily remain at resting heart rate and be moving much faster than they)..OR, they may not make it at all, and then have to ascend without the line, and hope to be rescued by the boat...

 

[noah977]

One of the things I hate most about BC's like the Scubapro Stab Jackets, is the extremely high drag you experience with them, as soon as you try to swim any distance, at anything beyond the slowest speeds possible.
On the other side of the equation, there are bp/wing systems, that are very slick, and allow you to move around much more like you were evolved for the ocean

I personally like Halcyon, and use an 18 pound wing, the lowest drag choice there is. There are many good brands, but I'd stick with real BP/wing systems, not poor compromises like back inflates that are mass manufactured, and that pretend to be everything you want.

DSS is certainly one line you need to check on, and Tobin of DSS is on SB regularly, and should be a great resource for you regarding bp/wings, and about how much lift you really need in a wing.

Most divers are buying much more buoyant wings than they should, because they think it is OK to consider the use of extremely buoyant wetsuits ( which need huge amounts of lead near surface, and then become quite heavy at 70 Feet deep and below). If you were using an 18 pound wing, for tropical locales ( water down to 72 degrees..or warmer), you would make smart choices on tanks and wetsuits, and you would always be slicker than the divers that make the poor choices and have to throw huge amounts of lead on, or have big wings to support tanks which are heavy enough to let you walk on the bottom like a hard hat diver ...

Dan,

I completely agree. Using the "hybrid" BCD with back inflation already felt much more streamlined. That's why I've decided to go with a pure BP/W system. (With, maybe a back pad). Considering that I'll usually dive in my 3mm wetsuit, I'm looking at wings in the 25-30 lbs lift range. If my understanding is correct, that should give me plenty of lift without over doing it.

Thanks!

---------- Post added October 25th, 2015 at 07:08 PM ----------

The big question now is WHICH brand of wing and BP to boy.

Just popped by the LDS, and they were asking $1,000 for a Halcyon setup that had a 30 lbs lift, backplate and harness. That seems insanely over priced considering what I've seen online. (Note: This is in Hong Kong, where everything is over priced, even more if you're an ex-pat.)

DGX seems to have some nice packages - the BP and harness seem about the same, but there are different brand wings, from very cheap to very expensive. Any thoughts on brand/quality?