New Divers Beware: Sketchy dive shop in Cozumel puts profits over safety

[bvana1]

Don't let what happened to me happen to you. I was finishing up my Open Water certification with Deep Blue dive shop in Cozumel MX. I was on my "check out" dive in pretty deep water (Palancar Reef) and was having trouble equalizing my ears. I was the only student with my instructor but he was also guiding 2 more experienced divers. I signalled to my instructor that I could not equalize my ears. Rather than have me ascend a bit to try then or even return to the surface to discuss, the instructor kept us going to the bottom (78 ft.) pacing the dive to the more experienced divers. I was in serious pain and kept signalling that my ears were not well. When we finally surfaced after the dive I coughed up some serious blood and my head was pounding. He seemed uninterested and said it was "normal". Bleeding is not "normal" in ANY adventure sport. Unless, ofcourse, something goes terribly wrong. Regardless, after an hour he had me do another dive (60 ft.) so I could get certified. Same thing happened again. That was two weeks ago. I couldn't dive the remainder of the trip, because my ears hurt so bad and couldn't "POP" them. Deep Blue dive staff and management offered no apologies or any words of regret. They wanted me to just book more dive trips, period. I went to the DAN clinic in CZM and the ear specialist said I had suffered Barotrauma.

My Ears are finally showing signs of improvement and I should have no permanent damage. I did however lose 3 days of diving that I'll never get back. There's two points to take away from this.

• One: read/learn about equalizing your ears well and practice sound diving procedures regarding this.
• Two: Beware of sketchy, profit motivated racketeers such as Deep Blue. Do your research and choose amoung well established more ethical professionals.

Your ears should NOT hurt while diving and you definitly should NOT be coughing up blood upon surfacing.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

You can click the link below to go directly to Deep Blue's response located further in this thread:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...l-puts-profits-over-safety-9.html#post6214426

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[Jxh2297]

I would have said screw the instructor and go to the surface, then once on the surface you could explain the problem

 

[MMM]

Have you complained to the licensing agency? (I'm assuming it's PADI.)

 

[WSOPFAN]

Sorry to hear that happened. I would find out his affiliation and officially report him. Also email the shop and tell them you are filing the report and give them a piece of your mind.

 

[DevonDiver]

One: read/learn about equalizing your ears well

Which you would have just done on your Open Water theory?

and practice sound diving procedures regarding this.

Which you would have just practised in your Confined Water training?


Begs the question.... if you were in pain, why didn't you apply the training/knowledge you (should) have recently been supplied with?

Are you alleging that the instructor refused to allow you to ascend? Or physically prevented you ascending? He, without doubt of your misunderstanding, actually told you to stop ascending and join him immediately at a deeper depth?

Or are you saying that the instructor may have failed to understand your communication... or didn't lead you by the hand into a resolution (that'd you'd otherwise be expected to perform by yourself)?

Did your instructor remain below you, waiting for you to sort out your problem, before re-joining him? What distance separated you?

By signalling your problem ("I have a problem - my ears - I will go up and resolve") he might opt to join you... or he might wait for you. As long as he didn't ignore you and actually swim off/continue descent beyond a reasonable distance. Or is that what you are alleging?

Two: Beware of sketchy, profit motivated racketeers such as Deep Blue.

I've never heard of a non-profit dive centre.

What makes you say they were sketchy or racketeers? In comparison to what other diver centres/scuba training courses/agency standards you have experience of?

Do your research and choose amoung well established more ethical professionals.

Whilst you haven't furnished much/any accurate information from which to draw a judgement, all I can say from reading your account is that you failed to apply the training and knowledge that you'd been provided with. Having failed to apply that knowledge, you're blaming the instructor for a self-inflicted injury.

It does seem that the instructor was partially distracted by the accompanying divers. I'd need to hear his/her account of that - because he/she may have had other issues to deal with (such as keeping a group together). That meant he/she wasn't able to spoon-feed you with a resolution to a problem that, again, they'd expect you to deal with on an open-water dive.

Out of interest, which course dive was this? It sounds like dive 3/4? On the OW dives, you're expected to demonstrate and apply the skills you've been taught. You didn't.

Your ears should NOT hurt while diving

Correct. You identified the problem and the solution (ascend and re-equalise before descending again), but you didn't apply it.

and you definitly should NOT be coughing up blood upon surfacing.

It's not dramatically uncommon for new divers to experience some slight discharge of blood from their noses. This comes from the nasal sinuses and is typically due to excessive and/or over-zealous equalisation attempts. This also typically stops as divers become more familiar with the performance of the valsalva manoeuvre and their sinuses become more accustomed to pressure differentials and equalisation.

As an instructor myself, I've experienced students that had the problem. I don't make a fuss about it either... because I don't want them to worry about something that they don't need to worry about. There's nothing worse than panicking a diver unnecessarily.

Here's some threads on it, with medical feedback:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/398820-blood-nose.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/284429-nose-bleed-while-diving.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/256957-blood-nose.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/291621-another-new-diver-bloody-nose.html


Note that those issues were asked as questions in the 'Diving Medical' forum, rather than as un-informed accusations in a regional forum.

 

[Karibelle]

Andy, any comment on "78 feet"? I also interpreted this as OW dives 3 and 4, and if that's the depth that he went to, then the OP does have a valid complaint.

kari

 

[Texas Torpedo]

Not to mention the Instructor's responsibility should have been to his student.. I'm not an instructor and don't know all the standards but on the many occasions where we had students on a trip with us in Cozumel, they had a instructor dedicated to them while the rest of the group had its own dive master.. Maybe that isn't a standards requirement (??) but the Ops I dove with never had a student mixed in with a normal dive group, and never were they brought along on the group's profile.

Bvana1, could you expand on the training you received prior to doing the open water dives? Was it with the same instructor, dive shop, etc? Did you do a e-learning program, referral, or classroom with Deep Blue?

 

[DevonDiver]

Andy, any comment on "78 feet"? I also interpreted this as OW dives 3 and 4, and if that's the depth that he went to, then the OP does have a valid complaint.

Didn't leap out at me, because I don't think in 'imperial'... but yes, of course, that'd be a breach of standards (max permissible depth - 60') on the OW course..if that was the depth planned/reached during the dive.

Again, question begs... if that was the planned depth (student responsible for planning the dives), then why wasn't the issue raised before getting into the water.

Still... completely unrelated to the 'barotrama' issues. Unless the OP is alleging that he was still descending (shallow) and the instructor was at 78'?!?

Not to mention the Instructor's responsibility should have been to his student..

I don't believe there is a prohibition on non-students being on the same dive/same group as a student. In the UK non-students are often used as 'safety divers' to support the instructor (not the student) in order to satisfy EU regulations. Basically, tagging along for the dive, so that the instructor 'has a buddy'.

Of course, the instructor has a duty-of-care to the student and that should always be their primary focus. However, it can also be argued that the student has an equal duty-of-care to apply the training/knowledge which they have been supplied - especially in the later stages (OW dives) of the course.

If the student had been in an uncontrolled descent, then the instructor should intervene, to prevent injury. If the student is in control, but chooses to ignore ear pain and force a descent, then the student isn't reasonably applying training. The instructor couldn't assume that an in-control student would voluntarily choose to descend in the knowledge that they will surely injure themselves.

A liability issue would be present if the OP is alleging that he hadn't been taught the need to equalise, or how to equalise, before the dive. However, once the student reaches the OW components of the course, having ascertained 'mastery' of the skill and knowledge at a prior stage, the instructor is primarily assessing the student in their correct application and continued 'mastery' of the skills.

I'm not saying this is what happened... but here's a 'possible' scenario from the instructors' perspective:

On descent, the instructor sees the student give an "I have a problem" sign.. then indicates their ears. That student is in control and has arrested their descent. The student then signals "up". The instructor acknowledges that this is the correct course of action - as previously taught, the student is aware that the correct procedure is to ascend slightly and re-perform the equalisation. The instructor waits at their current depth for the student to perform this and join them. After a brief pause, the student continues their descent and joins the instructor. The dive continues...

 

[Thalassamania]

Which you would have just done on your Open Water theory?



Which you would have just practised in your Confined Water training?


Begs the question.... if you were in pain, why didn't you apply the training/knowledge you (should) have recently been supplied with?

Are you alleging that the instructor refused to allow you to ascend? Or physically prevented you ascending? He, without doubt of your misunderstanding, actually told you to stop ascending and join him immediately at a deeper depth?

Or are you saying that the instructor may have failed to understand your communication... or didn't lead you by the hand into a resolution (that'd you'd otherwise be expected to perform by yourself)?

Did your instructor remain below you, waiting for you to sort out your problem, before re-joining him? What distance separated you?

By signalling your problem ("I have a problem - my ears - I will go up and resolve") he might opt to join you... or he might wait for you. As long as he didn't ignore you and actually swim off/continue descent beyond a reasonable distance. Or is that what you are alleging?

Agreed, though I feel the instructor should have stayed close enough to the student to be able to intervene on the student's behalf in an emergency.

I've never heard of a non-profit dive centre.

Most all college and university programs?

What makes you say they were sketchy or racketeers? In comparison to what other diver centres/scuba training courses/agency standards you have experience of?



Whilst you haven't furnished much/any accurate information from which to draw a judgement, all I can say from reading your account is that you failed to apply the training and knowledge that you'd been provided with. Having failed to apply that knowledge, you're blaming the instructor for a self-inflicted injury.

It does seem that the instructor was partially distracted by the accompanying divers. I'd need to hear his/her account of that - because he/she may have had other issues to deal with (such as keeping a group together). That meant he/she wasn't able to spoon-feed you with a resolution to a problem that, again, they'd expect you to deal with on an open-water dive.

I think that the instructors first responsibility and duty should be to keep an as yet uncertified diver from harm.

Out of interest, which course dive was this? It sounds like dive 3/4? On the OW dives, you're expected to demonstrate and apply the skills you've been taught. You didn't.



Correct. You identified the problem and the solution (ascend and re-equalise before descending again), but you didn't apply it.



It's not dramatically uncommon for new divers to experience some slight discharge of blood from their noses. This comes from the nasal sinuses and is typically due to excessive and/or over-zealous equalisation attempts. This also typically stops as divers become more familiar with the performance of the valsalva manoeuvre and their sinuses become more accustomed to pressure differentials and equalisation.

As an instructor myself, I've experienced students that had the problem. I don't make a fuss about it either... because I don't want them to worry about something that they don't need to worry about. There's nothing worse than panicking a diver unnecessarily.

Here's some threads on it, with medical feedback:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/398820-blood-nose.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/284429-nose-bleed-while-diving.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/256957-blood-nose.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/291621-another-new-diver-bloody-nose.html


Note that those issues were asked as questions in the 'Diving Medical' forum, rather than as un-informed accusations in a regional forum.

It is not unusual for students, especially those in resort training situations (if you and other instructors who teach in such situations are to believed) to fail to apply what they have "learned." That's why the instructor is supposed to be there with them. Then there is, of course, the issue of: "if they have not learned, have you actually taught?"

 

[Ron Lee]

There is also reality that students may have implicit trust in the instructor and may not have the "courage" (for lack of the right word) to take charge and do what is right.

I have enough experience that I would ascend alone if need be and do it safely. I can listen for boats should I need to get close to the surface.

I can also rejoin the group alone safely.

The poster does not have the skill set to be expected to do any of those alone especially with an instructor whose primary purpose is the training/checkout of that ONE person.