New safety device - survey - 2nd try ;)

[DevonDiver]

It supports YOUR buddy watching - a key finder also does not crawl around in your house and come back to you with the key!

Oh...sorry, I must have misunderstood when you said it was a 'buddy watcher'.

I guess I made the same mistake when I read your description of it as a 'safety device' and a 'buddy system aid' as well....

 

[ScubaVideo]

I like to deal in reality, and that mean buddies get separated. Most divers are not tech, advanced or instructors, they are weekend warriors or vacation divers out for some fun. And buddies get separated all the time. What is better in this situation, ascending or having an instrument that will locate him or her? You can call it a crutch if you like that weakens the buddy system, but from my prospective divers lose buddies all the time.

I take video on almost all of my dives and I often dive solo because of it. No body wants to sit and watch me shoot a jaw fish for 10 minutes to get that perfect shot. When I do buddy up it would be nice to know where my buddy is when I get my face out of my cameras screen.

Other times I have been asked by a boats DM to watch other divers. What am I, a babysitter? Well, I do as asked but I am sure as hell not chasing them all over the reef because they took off in a marathon run after something.

I'm not really sure I would buy an instrument like this as I still would prefer to be solo when shooting video as even with such a tool, a buddy team is suppose to be a team. That means I really can't just ignore them while focusing on that little cute fish popping his head out of the sand - once every minute or so.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Good comments Kingpatzer... I just posted because I felt that many see the device as some kind of Buddy-FINDER but actually it is a Buddy-WATCHER... there is too much discussion about the loss of the buddy but this is exactly what the device is designed for: to PREVENT the loss...

You seem to have completely missed my comments.

Watching your buddy is an active element of buddy diving that requires care and training. Your device does not enable watching your buddy and may actively discourage it among those divers most in need of havng that skill cultivated.

You may have the potential to address that with some design changes. But if you continue to insist that this device meets the design goal of enabling watching your buddy, then it only shows that either you are not reading the comments of those who are responding to you or else you are unaware yourself of what it means to be a good dive buddy.

 

[Diver0001]

there is too much discussion about the loss of the buddy but this is exactly what the device is designed for: to PREVENT the loss...

Once again, I think you are mistaken. Preventing the loss can not be left to technology because technology cannot detect a lapse in situational awareness. Any device, however sophisticated, can only detect the loss AFTER the main insult (namely loss of situational awareness) has begun to manifest itself.

Think of it in terms of cause and effect. Your device *may*, if it's very VERY good, be able to detect the *effects* but the causes are literally undetectable

The *danger* of such a device is to tell people exactly what you're telling them... that it's intended to "avoid" loss of buddy.... but the loss.... at least psychologically.... has happened already.... what you are detecting is (at best) the "effect". Once again, to draw the comparison, it's detecting a collision *after* the "thump"

The mere fact that you seem to be unable to understand this is proof positive to me that the device you are inventing it being developed on the basis of incorrect (and dangerous) premises, namely the premise that a "device" can replace the need to be "situationally aware" (when it cannot) in a sport where situational awareness is paramount to safety.

.... but now we're just going in circles. Experienced divers from all over the world have told you that this device is not fit for pupose... but you're going to push ahead with your plans anyway.... That much is clear. but what you're really doing is akin to designing a boat that doesn't float because you personally think (or can't understand) that for people who buy a boat floating is a "need" and not a "nice to have".

R..

 

[Kingpatzer]

but what you're really doing is akin to designing a boat that doesn't float because you personally think (or can't understand) that for people who buy a boat floating is a "need" and not a "nice to have".

R..

But it will tell you it's sinking and whcih direction the bottom is!

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

You seem to have completely missed my comments.

You seem to not having realised that I liked your counter-arguments as they are comprehensible.

It does not matter what my personal opinion about the device is and it is not up to me to decide what will happen in the future concerning the BW. I just see that you are arguing elaborately that (simplified) if you need such a device, your buddy system does not work, and if it does not work, you are a bad diver, and if you make use of the device, you will never learn to be a good diver, because it supports your 'bad' buddy abilities...

Your arguments are correct, of course, but far not true or as important for everyone. It is about finding out where you see the problems and where you or others see the advantages, nothing more. You have a clear position and you supported it with detailed logical reasoning, which is exactly what the sense of this discussion is. I reckon everybody can see and understand your point, and I do understand what you and the other guys say (the detailed statements, all of them), and I'm far away from dismissing them, BUT just because one can understand and comprehend and see your point, it does not mean that I cannot throw in some thoughts I feel are not adequately considered - regardless of my opinion.

For example the comparison with the car and the warning after the crash. Okay, I can see what you want to tell me. I understand the point. I don't say there is nothing behind it. I tell you 'hey, good argument', and I mean it that way. However, I can nevertheless think 'mh, but why did the accident already happen?' This comparison does not seem 100% logical to me. If I can feel a vibration on my arm, telling me I should keep an eye on my buddy because he is 2 or 3 meters away from me - where is the accident? I did not yet lose my buddy (which is the accident, losing situational awareness MAY BE the cause for such an accident), I just had been reminded that in this moment he is in a distance to me that makes it more probable that it happens. Except of in very bad visibility, I can still see him and approach a little bit and take more care for the rest of the dive. Of course I could have watched him every second and be aware of his position all the time. Maybe I lost situational awareness. Of course I shouldn't have, as this is the cause for buddy losses and of course this is essential for safe diving. I have made a mistake, maybe, but I did not lose my buddy. Why do buddy losses occure? Because obviously not everyone is able to observe his buddy all the time. If you think you are - okay, maybe you are - if you think with an adequate education and training everyone should be - okay, you are probably right - does that mean: there should not be buddy losses, okay then there should not be such a device... isn't that the same problem with all safety systems?

There is so much more I could write in this discussion, but I guess I am not supposed to interfere at all :doh:

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

About one week to go and the survey will be finished - thank you once again for your participation and for the discussion!!!

If you have not yet taken part... feel free to :

http://ww2.unipark.de/uc/UniPF_Ungerer_BuddyWatcher/

 

[Jewls]

I'm new to diving, but think this is a good idea. Especially if you rely on Insta Buddies or diving in poor viz.

 

[mwalsh787]

Done. Good luck. Seems like an interesting product! Thanks for doing your homework and getting real divers' opinions before bringing the product to market.

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

Thanks to all