New safety device - survey - 2nd try ;)

[DevonDiver]

What about female opinions..? :blinking:

Are they available in pink?

Will there be a special edition Swarovski crystal version?

Can I download custom alarm sounds, for instance Hannah Montana theme?

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

The categories being relevant for what I want to analyse are the four that have been asked. Cave diving, wreck diving etc. would have been interesting, of course, but they are specialty courses not needed in the beginning of the questionnaire. There is a lot more stuff that makes sense to be asked, but I had to cut about one third of length (who wants to answer a survey that takes about half an hour to get through) and I have instructions concerning the main things to be found out.

Nevertheless it is good to know where you see the weaknesses of the survey, that is giving a lot of input for further research!

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

@DevonDiver

I HOPE they will be available in pink - nothing to say against Swarovski as well, you will get the first exemplar. Including sounds may be difficult, since acoustic noise under water may be hard to realise..... but..... we'll consider your suggestions

 

[NoDiver]

Inside wrecks?

Does the buddy device look like this....

 

[Diver0001]

I was giving this idea some more thought and I really think it's hopeless. Much of scuba-diving safety protocol revolves around one thing: "prevention is better than cure".

So if you're enough of an air-head that you really think you'll need a "buddy finder" then what you really need is a "buddy line"

They look like this.

The idea is that you simply tie a rope to both buddies. That way, regardless of your lack of situational awareness you can't lose your buddy. Buddy lines have their problems too but at least they are fit for purpose in some contexts because they at least "prevent" the buddy from getting lost instead of trying to get the genie back in the bottle after it's happened.

They also cost about $1 if you make them yourself. If you want to spend a bunch of money on a a good one then they cost about $10 but if anyone wants to buy one for $400 from me than send me a PM and I promise to have it in the mail the same day.

Every now and again a device gets proposed that I really think is not "fit for purpose" for scuba diving. The buddy finder, in my "skills biased" opinion, really shouldn't be allowed to make it to market. It's a bad idea and unfortunately, the divers who are most likely to buy one are the ones most likely to have an accident despite (or maybe because) of relying on one...

My 2c worth.

R..

 

[Kingpatzer]

IIt's a bad idea and unfortunately, the divers who are most likely to buy one are the ones most likely to have an accident despite (or maybe because) of relying on one...

That point can't be emphasized enough. Many proposed safety ideas have unintended consequences in practice that lead to greater problems than they propose to solve. This "solution" screams of that possibility.

In diving most revolutionary safety advancements (at least as I read the history books) have been far more about about training and standards than about specific technologies. Most of the technology that has been adopted in scuba diving solves specific problems faced by a diver in the water that is not solvable merely with adequate training and which requires a technology solution. When it comes to gear, this tends to be a minimalist sport.

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

Regardless of the price ... just concerning the warning function: If there is a need / market for a buddy-line, in your opinions, why shouldn't there be one for a Buddy-Watcher?

Someone also came up with this, for example: "in order to avoid activating the vibration (may be annoying when it happens frequently), you learn to keep an eye on your buddy and stay relatively close to him..?"

Why does a dive computer calculate what we should be able to calculate with a dive table? Why are there parking-aid devices, avalanche victim search devices, GPS navigation systems and all that stuff if we should be trained to manage everything on our own...?


...just to whip up controversy

 

[Kingpatzer]

Regardless of the price ... just concerning the warning function: If there is a need / market for a buddy-line, in your opinions, why shouldn't there be one for a Buddy-Watcher?

There is a difference between a need and a market. There was a great market for pet rocks, but no one needed one. When talking about curios, it really doesn't matter that marketing has created demand where there would not be demand naturally; however, when talking about items marketed as safety devices when there is no need for the device, then a serious ethical question that good businesses really should be asking themselves is raised.

That question is this: suppose our marketing is wildly successful, and many customers begin using and trusting this device based on our marketing and not on an existing need, what is the worst thing that can happen?

I can think of a number of worst things that could happen in your situation. Let's start with you contend it will work well in and around wrecks. So how many divers are you willing to accept responsibility for per year who find themselves in the following situation. They are newer divers with poor buddy skills and are on the outside of a wreck in low visibility on a dive they are marginally qualified to do. Due to poor buddy skills, they separate from their buddy, who is now on the other side of some small obstruction. Between the two buddies is an opening into the wreck. One buddy decides to look down on his wrist and follows the beacon wtih out really looking around since the vis is bad and they're not particularly comfortable, and due to movement and positioning is led inside of the wreck in bad visibility. An entanglement or silt out happens and they die.

Entirely the fault of your product? No. But would it have happened without your product? Quite possibly it would not happen that way. Without your product the diver would be looking around and trying to find signs of the buddy rather than simply following the pointer on their wrist.

Why does a dive computer calculate what we should be able to calculate with a dive table?

When used in dive planning mode it is nothing more than a table with buttons. When used in the water it is doing things a dive table can not do, so that is simply a false analogy. A well trained diver will not rely on the computer to plan the dive on the fly. They are trained to plan the dive prior to entering the water.

Why are there parking-aid devices, avalanche victim search devices, GPS navigation systems and all that stuff if we should be trained to manage everything on our own...?

A good example here is GPS navigation. It brings something to the table that merely having a map and a compass leaves out - the ability to tie multiple systems together. Instead of having to look up a business by genre, then figure out where the nearest one is to your current location, you are able to simply sort those businesses by distance from your current location. It does something that is not possible (or at least highly time consuming) without the device.

It also allows for driving without having to stop and look at the map to verify the next turn.

In other words, it creates possibilities for the consumer that did not exist prior to the device being in the market space.

Your other examples are similar, the create the possibility to do something that would otherwise have been difficult or impossible without them. I can park well enough to merit a driver's license, but I don't want to risk parking in a particularly tight space on a busy street, due to not wanting to risk damage to my vehicle, or finding out I misjudged the distances and I spend a bunch of time holding up traffic and looking stupid. But with parking assistance, I am able to be more considerate of those around me and park a bit closer to my destination.

Your product does not offer these perks. You are not enabling something that is not possible without your device. Moreover, you are not making diving better. As was pointed out, the key point of being a buddy is awareness of what the other person is doing at all times so that you can render assistance if they get into trouble. Being able to find a lost buddy means that for some time prior to being lost, you weren't being a buddy in the first place! The danger that your device seeks to prevent is not averted; and, as has been pointed out before, it may well be increased as buddies figure the device means they don't have to pay too much attention to their partner.

 

[Diver0001]

Regardless of the price ... just concerning the warning function: If there is a need / market for a buddy-line, in your opinions, why shouldn't there be one for a Buddy-Watcher?

It's a valid question. In my opinion problems need to be "avoided" and not managed back under control once they have happened. The whole concept of the "buddy watcher" is flawed. It's a gizmo, if I understand correctly, that is intended to alert a diver that their buddy is outside of a certain range. By the time that happens, however, both buddies have already made several mistakes, and therefore the gizmo is really giving divers a tool to manage the genie back into the bottle.

That's wrong thinking.

Right thinking, if you ask me is to "avoid" the buddy swimming away. There are a number of procedural, and skills based solutions which allow for that. Two really obvious, and low-tech ways to get a 100% guarantee that you won't lose you buddy is (a) hold onto them, to their BCD or even hold hands if necessary or (b) if conditions are so bad that the ability to achieve the dive's objectives is significantly obstructed by the need to constantly keep eyes on ones buddy then one could consider using a buddy line.

Someone also came up with this, for example: "in order to avoid activating the vibration (may be annoying when it happens frequently), you learn to keep an eye on your buddy and stay relatively close to him..?"

Actually to be useful, it would be better if it delivered a BIG shock to the diver if they lose track of their buddy. That way motivation to "avoid" the problem would be higher than motivation to "fix" the problem.

Why does a dive computer calculate what we should be able to calculate with a dive table? Why are there parking-aid devices, avalanche victim search devices, GPS navigation systems and all that stuff if we should be trained to manage everything on our own...?

You're giving examples of devices that are fit for purpose in their context. Parking sensors, for example, are intended to "avoid" you running into the car behind you when parking. A proper analogy for the buddy-watcher would be a beeper that went off only AFTER you hit the car behind you. See the difference?

...just to whip up controversy

R..

 

[jbtut]

A pair of "buddy finders" for skiing are a lot more $. If the technology you're working with can give accurate distance and direction, build one that works above water and price them at $200ea. and they'll sell.

It would be a feature I could see being useful especially if integrated into a my computer. I dive 95% of the time with my wife. On occasion it can be difficult to get her attention quickly. For example if a shark is swimming by it may only be visible for 10 seconds. If I'm 20 feet away and don't want to bang my tank, she might miss the shark. If I could push a button and vibrate her computer to say "look over here", it would be quite valuable IMO.