New safety device - survey - 2nd try ;)

[String]

I think for new divers or once a year vacation divers this could be a very useful tool. Every time the buddy pair seperate by more than the preset distance, the device vibrates on their wrist & shows them the direction to their buddy.

And what would that preset distance be? There is no magic distance.

The only way to keep this thing from vibrating is to keep your buddy close. How do you keep your buddy close, by knowing where they are.

By communicating, signalling and checking. With no need for some electronic doorbell that might or might not work.

Its going to promote people to swim around and if its not vibrating they assume the buddy is near. They'll stop looking or checking and rely on that. Which is fine until it breaks or they dive with someone that hasnt got one.

Also, makes the job easier for the instructor by self herding the sheep.

No it doesn't. For any guide or instructor it will make no difference at all. You are ALWAYS aware of where the group is, you dont lead a group out of sight of others. Any instructor that needs one of those to make his life easier should not be teaching or guiding.

Imagine the carnage. Diver A stops to take a photo, rest of group carries on. Dive B goes up 4-5m to look at something, Diver C drops down 4-5m.

The thing if it was set to any sensible "buddy" distance would be sounding constantly.

It's the second day of certification divers, you're leading your 2 charges in 7-10 feet viz. Diver 1 is so close you could share a wetsuit, diver 2 is a few feet behind. Diver 2 sees something & stops to investigate, you & diver 1 do two fin kicks & we've got a lost diver situation. Diver 2 is now a willingly negligent diver?!?

You wouldn't teach that way. diver 1 and diver 2 are students. They're a buddy pair. The dive with each other. You don't lose divers that way. If you cant keep a buddy pair together underwater you have no business teaching. This isnt rocket science. You seem to be asking for an electronic device purely to be useful to lazy and unobservant guides or instructors.

 

[DevonDiver]

How many times have you had to stop the dive to bang your tank incessantly at a new diver who apparently has no idea what's going on, swimming off into the sunset. You can't possibly be telling me that's something you enjoy doing & something that, if self corrected, wouldn't be a good thing.

I've thought long and hard about this, to make sure I hadn't forgotten an occasion.

The answer is.... never.

I don't think it's willingness to throw to the wind all safety & instruction as it is "I'm freaking out here, ooh, what's that". I'm not an instructor but I do help out, looking after divers getting certified, from time to time. I'm in no way affiliated with the instructors, they're friends of mine, I just act as an extra pair of eyes.

You're entitled to your opinion, but as you state, you aren't an instructor. I've certified many hundreds of divers, so I think I have had fair exposure to the mindset, capabilities and potential of student divers.

I train my divers to put safety first. If a diver sees a pretty fish and swims away from their buddy without signalling, then safety is obviously not their first priority.

If a diver freaks out, then they have an attentive buddy to assist them. During the training course, they have an attentive instructor monitoring them. If these two factors are in place, what issues could arise that require techno-gizmos?

Some people are just not as comfortable as others & don't remember what's been taught at all times... training & knowledge are all only as good as the diver's ability to think of these things at the moment.

The necessity to put you and your buddy's safety first isn't something you 'forget', it is something you neglect.

'Responsibility' isn't a scuba skill.

We don't teach 'responsibility' on scuba courses... we expect people to have developed a measure of that in their everyday lives.

 

[Kingpatzer]

How many times have you had to stop the dive to bang your tank incessantly at a new diver who apparently has no idea what's going on, swimming off into the sunset. You can't possibly be telling me that's something you enjoy doing & something that, if self corrected, wouldn't be a good thing.

Never once.

I've never lost a new diver or student. I've never had a dive where I would have needed this tool. And I teach in a lake that often has quite low visibility.

 

[k ellis]

Needing something to keep you together defeats the purpose of learning to rely on a buddy in my opinion. When you first start diving you are learning all of the skills you will need and are usually wide open to taking in new concepts.

I agree that once you bypass the skills and requirements of being a good buddy then it would be easy to go on a dive somewhere and get an insta buddy and just totaly loose that person due to inattentiveness.

I say learn all of the basic fundamentals first and only after you have completely masterd them should you look for short cuts. One important thing to remember though is the more gadgets you dive with the more maintenance cost are going to go up from mainitaining more gear.

 

[DevonDiver]

Needing something to keep you together defeats the purpose of learning to rely on a buddy in my opinion.

You hit the nail on the head.

The point of staying close to your buddy, is so that you can observe, monitor and assist them. Being close to your buddy is the means, not the end goal.

This device allows you to stay close to your buddy without the need to monitor them...it achieves nothing and actually discourages use of the 'buddy system'.

The buddy system is about awareness, not proximity.

What's the point of being close to your buddy, if you oblivious to them?

Without this device, you have to look at your buddy. In doing so, you can see if they are having problems. You can check their status. You would recognise an emergency.

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

Ok, so in low to zero visibility does it show in what direction and how far my buddy is? Six feet could equal to lost. It works reliably inside wrecks made out of iron, right? Interference free too? I want to monitor MY buddy. Not the 7 others.

Interference free - yes. Inside wrecks & similar - yes. Direction - yes. How far - no.

It was intended not to give too much information in the survey, so that discussions and opinions are not limited to the 'obvious' but a bit more creative

 

[ChristinaUngerer]

I agree with String - poorly worded questions like most surveys I have taken. For example: "A careful diver is able to eliminate any risk diving does involve.". The answer to this question is ALWAYS "no" - unless all you do is couch dive, you can NEVER eliminate "any" [probably means "all" in the context of the question] risk.

Right. Should be "all"... Of course the answer of 99% of the respondents will be 'no' - it is not about questioning the obvious, but about having a statistical 'proof' for the obvious. Unfortunately that's the way surveys work, annoying but necessary from a scientific point of view.

 

[DevonDiver]

Inside wrecks?

Does the buddy device look like this....

 

[tlj3071]

Yeah...I suppose if you had the electro-gizzmo... it'd start buzzing on the boat...and might cause a few questions...If you could justify spending $400 on something that might be "nice"...Neither of those items would cost more than $25 either...

Here we are in agreement - $400 is waaaayyyy too much. I might be willing to spring $40 or $50, but not $400. I had it in my mind that the price point was way too high, but forgot to elucidate that in my reply.

Tom

 

[DevonDiver]

Christina,

In terms of pricing... as a comparison, divers can already buy Underwater Handheld Sonar Devices for under $100.

These sound about as equally useful in buddy detection (low viz etc), and have a variety of other uses, such as locating wrecks, shot lines etc.

Cost would be a big issue with any potential sale of your survey gizmo. Whether I agree with the concept or not, I do reckon that a $400 price tag is about 4x what consumers would be willing to pay for it.