New safety device - survey - 2nd try ;)

[motorref]

As an academic, surely you have been taught NOT to skew results by guiding/leading your survey respondants...
You call this an 'innovative safety device'.
You could have called it a 'useless, expensive, gadget'....

Ahhh,, but where would we be without our "useless, expensive gadgets"? Just this morning I watched as my wife loaded up her (oversized) purse/bag with her internet enabled cell phone, her Nook and her laptop. About the only thing she was missing was the GPS to find her way back home,,,,

KevinL

 

[bubba105]

I think for new divers or once a year vacation divers this could be a very useful tool. Every time the buddy pair seperate by more than the preset distance, the device vibrates on their wrist & shows them the direction to their buddy. The only way to keep this thing from vibrating is to keep your buddy close. How do you keep your buddy close, by knowing where they are. Kinda like a dog with an electric fence. Granted, to buy this on your own for $400 might be a bit high for most but added into the rental gear array, a shop charging $10 a day for the pair, on rental day 41 they're in the black. Also, makes the job easier for the instructor by self herding the sheep.

 

[DevonDiver]

The only way to keep this thing from vibrating is to keep your buddy close. How do you keep your buddy close, by knowing where they are. Kinda like a dog with an electric fence.

That's a good analogy on the concept of the device.

However, it assumes a manufacturers premise that human divers are as dumb as dogs.... and incapable of making a rational decision to be observant and maintain a set distance from another person for the duration of their dive.

Divers who care about staying close to the their buddy can do so with ease without the device.

The ones who don't care about staying close, certainly won't be investing $400 dollars in an electronic cattle-prod to control themselves.

Also, makes the job easier for the instructor by self herding the sheep.

Again...an instructor or dive guide who cares to keep his divers properly paired and under effective supervision will be able to do that.

In contrast, an instructor or DM that doesn't care to supervise and control their divers won't be spending $400 on the device.


Basically, the device is only likely to have an appeal to willingly negligent divers. I'd hazard an intelligent guess that this demographic from the dive community are unlikely to make a productive customer base for the expensive gadget....

 

[Kingpatzer]

Also, makes the job easier for the instructor by self herding the sheep.

I know of no instructor who would ever need such a toy. Any instructor who does should be immediately fired by their shop, disciplined by their agency, and strung up by their students.

Andy has it right -- this is yet another solution in search of a problem.

 

[mitsuguy]

I've got an invention for ya...

someone invent (or cobble together) a device that monitors the air pressure of all divers in the group with me...

certified divers on guided dives seem to be terrible at conveying air pressure, and in many instances just plain lie about their air time remaining... with a console or wrist mounted device, I could check them all and not rely on them to give me accurate information...

I always hate the "well, I had 900 psi" arguments...

 

[Subcooled]

Ok, so in low to zero visibility does it show in what direction and how far my buddy is? Six feet could equal to lost. It works reliably inside wrecks made out of iron, right? Interference free too? I want to monitor MY buddy. Not the 7 others.

 

[bubba105]

That's a good analogy on the concept of the device.

However, it assumes a manufacturers premise that human divers are as dumb as dogs.... and incapable of making a rational decision to be observant and maintain a set distance from another person for the duration of their dive.

Divers who care about staying close to the their buddy can do so with ease without the device.

The ones who don't care about staying close, certainly won't be investing $400 dollars in an electronic cattle-prod to control themselves.



Again...an instructor or dive guide who cares to keep his divers properly paired and under effective supervision will be able to do that.

In contrast, an instructor or DM that doesn't care to supervise and control their divers won't be spending $400 on the device.


Basically, the device is only likely to have an appeal to willingly negligent divers. I'd hazard an intelligent guess that this demographic from the dive community are unlikely to make a productive customer base for the expensive gadget....

You gotta lighten up, "willingly negligent divers"??? It's the second day of certification divers, you're leading your 2 charges in 7-10 feet viz. Diver 1 is so close you could share a wetsuit, diver 2 is a few feet behind. Diver 2 sees something & stops to investigate, you & diver 1 do two fin kicks & we've got a lost diver situation. Diver 2 is now a willingly negligent diver?!?
You can
a) do circles for one minute looking for the lost diver, hoping you find him. After an unsuccessful attempt in finding our brand new diver, you thumb the dive & surface, hoping that some of what you taught diver 2 will come to the front of his conciousness. Having fun yet?
b) look at diver 1's wrist mount device, which is telling you diver 2 is 20 feet away in that direction. Get diver 2 & continue the dive.
Your choice.

New divers are experiencing sensory overload, some handle it better than others. A device that forces those who don't, to pay better attention, could be a great aid.

 

[bubba105]

I know of no instructor who would ever need such a toy. Any instructor who does should be immediately fired by their shop, disciplined by their agency, and strung up by their students.

Andy has it right -- this is yet another solution in search of a problem.

How many times have you had to stop the dive to bang your tank incessantly at a new diver who apparently has no idea what's going on, swimming off into the sunset. You can't possibly be telling me that's something you enjoy doing & something that, if self corrected, wouldn't be a good thing.

 

[DevonDiver]

You gotta lighten up, "willingly negligent divers"???

Yep. It's a personal decision and a personal responsibility. There's always a skill and procedures based solution, if the diver opts to use it.

It's the second day of certification divers, you're leading your 2 charges in 7-10 feet viz. Diver 1 is so close you could share a wetsuit, diver 2 is a few feet behind. Diver 2 sees something & stops to investigate, you & diver 1 do two fin kicks & we've got a lost diver situation. Diver 2 is now a willingly negligent diver?!?

1) Funny, that's never happened to me as an instructor. It's a simple case of correct procedures and effective planning.

Firstly, I would position myself so that it couldn't happen. Secondly, Divers 1&2 are the buddy team; I am the observing instructor. Thirdly, the group wouldn't be going so fast that it could happen.

2) Diver 2 has a buddy. If Diver 2 wants to stop and observe something in low vis... then they inform their buddy, who waits with them.

If Diver 2 neglects to inform their buddy....
If Diver 2 neglects to stay with their buddy...

That's negligence.

And because the diver was trained otherwise...and is knowledgeble about those procedures... but opts not to bother with them.... it is willing.

 

[bubba105]

Yep. It's a personal decision and a personal responsibility. There's always a skill and procedures based solution, if the diver opts to use it.



1) Funny, that's never happened to me as an instructor. It's a simple case of correct procedures and effective planning.

Firstly, I would position myself so that it couldn't happen. Secondly, Divers 1&2 are the buddy team; I am the observing instructor. Thirdly, the group wouldn't be going so fast that it could happen.

2) Diver 2 has a buddy. If Diver 2 wants to stop and observe something in low vis... then they inform their buddy, who waits with them.

If Diver 2 neglects to inform their buddy....
If Diver 2 neglects to stay with their buddy...

That's negligence.

And because the diver was trained otherwise...and is knowledgeble about those procedures... but opts not to bother with them.... it is willing.

I don't think it's willingness to throw to the wind all safety & instruction as it is "I'm freaking out here, ooh, what's that". I'm not an instructor but I do help out, looking after divers getting certified, from time to time. I'm in no way affiliated with the instructors, they're friends of mine, I just act as an extra pair of eyes. Some people are just not as comfortable as others & don't remember what's been taught at all times. These same people become good divers with time. The willingness you speak of, training & knowledge are all only as good as the diver's ability to think of these things at the moment.