No Octo?? Here goes...Blast away!!

[HowardE]

I still think it's dumb to not have a backup to your second stage. There are many things that can go wrong. Why not carry the octo? A secondary air source like a pony? Is that a great alternative? I don't think so. People rely on their ponys to extend their bottom time, because they suck their tanks dry. Is this a good practice either?

I would agree, that if your octo is flapping around, and getting caught on coral, that is BAD. But there are simple solutions to that, that don't involve removing the octo. I'm not taking mine off of my rig, because some guy with 2000+ dives says otherwise. There's no reason to poo poo safety equipment at all. It's not a hassle to have it attached to you close enough where it does not increase your drag, or risk getting snagged.

Also... when you complete your initial post with "BLAST AWAY" that definitely sounds like flame fanning. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Diver0001]

Little hijack here....

Howard, I have to know.... what the heck is MOF?

- Ministry of finance
- Multiple organ failure
- Man of Fun
- Microsoft operations framework
- Main orifice full?
- Master of failure?
- Midget on fire?

This is driving me crazy... help me out here.

R..

 

[HowardE]

[hijack]

R...

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=118287

[/hijack]

 

[billeelou]

[Also... when you complete your initial post with "BLAST AWAY" that definitely sounds like flame fanning. .[/QUOTE]


no, just been here a little while and every time I've posted a ??? the flamethrowers have come out..of course there are strong feelings on both sides..and by the way I do not "suck my tanks dry"

when I asked about fins, ?I get the same set of replys...until "I PM'd a Mares Rep. who gave me the advice I was looking for...go back and read the posts where the guy put in" I may be too ""lazy"" to look this up myself...there were 15 posts calling him every name in the book...so Blast away seems to be the modis operandi on this board...

"Stupid, idiot, Darwin award, dummy...." yep expected nothing less...until the adults post thoughtful reponses and reasoned attitudes....

as my old instructor told us, unless you take a knife to your throat & tie yourself to a line and overweight yourself, as long as you stay well within your dive plan/capabilities, nothing will happen ....

It was with much amusement I read the DAN accident reports for 2005 with over half of the fatalities had Alcohol drug use and unsafe practices as contributing factors...I do not recall lack of an Octo as contributing factor....

 

[ch0ppersrule]

Dive however you want. I don't have an octo and don't care if someone doesn't want to dive with me. My hubby is my dive buddy anyways. I didn't want an extra hose getting in my way. I dive for MY pleasure not working. If I were a DM or Instructor I would have one. As for boat dives, you may be buddied up with someone else, but the DM or Inst. is ultimately responsible for the safety of everyone that is paying them. You can work with your air2 until you get to the DM or surface. Don't worry about what others say- dive for your comfort.

 

[HowardE]

Where did you see that alcohol or drugs is the leading cause of death with divers?

I see that in the "breath holding" section.

I also don't remember using the words "stupid, idiot, or dummy"

You want a thoughtful response, I gave it. If you think it's truly safe, good for you. If most of the people who don't think it's truly safe don't have more than 500 dives, that's not changing my opinion. Just because people used to grab a tank, and jump in doesn't mean that it's a safe practice. SCUBA equipment has evolved a long way over the years, and safety is often the leading factor in equipment changes.

as my old instructor told us, unless you take a knife to your throat & tie yourself to a line and overweight yourself, as long as you stay well within your dive plan/capabilities, nothing will happen ....

You really believe this? Nothing will happen?

But either way... do what you think is right... I'm not here to preach one way or the other. There isn't a right answer here... that's for sure.

Also... The Scubapro Air2 would totally be a fine subsitute for an Octo, it's a safe backup - alternate air source. I would consider it the same thing, unless you want to nit pick.

 

[WaterDawg]

SO, no Air2 (or similar) either? I would say that that IS not common in fact I have only met one person in about 1,000 divers I've met that was like that, but she had to change since the boats would not let her dive w/ out one.

I could personally not give a rats *** what a guy in another state dives, but I am AMAZED at the lack for better problem solving skills. Instead of finding a better way to deal w/ the Octo that "snags on wrecks” you choose to just do a way w/ it an open your self (and your buddy’s, if you dive w/ them) to other problems. Yes I can buddy breathe, and yes COULD use a J valve instead of an SPG but why? The neck laced 2nd stage does not suffer any of the problems you describe; in fact those problems are caused by improper stowing of the Octo.

What worries me is that there might be some people who aren’t capable of thinking through that (the stowing) problem, yet are expected to make problem solving decisions in an emergency.
That is different than someone who for nostalgic reasons chooses to dive vintage gear.

If you really want to eliminate a hose, do away w/ the SPG and the power inflator, after all they did not use those a couple of decades ago either.

 

[billeelou]

howard - you did not use those terms,,,just scroll up and read page one for those and other terms...

with trained sober divers using reasonable judgement, diving within their limits, solid checked out equipment, the chances of fatalities is less than driving to the airport to get on the plane. Dive Trainer had a section on risk managementa couple months ago.It showed how to reduce risk dpending on the dive scenerio, common sense really.

"I think its dumb" your words, not exactly calling a "dummy" but calling anyone who dives without one (ie. me) Dumb....flamethrowers....

If I am solo on a excursion, without a known dive buddy, if "I rely on them(the unknown dive buddy
) , I am the risk taker"

 

[tjmills]

[Also... when you complete your initial post with "BLAST AWAY" that definitely sounds like flame fanning. .

no, just been here a little while and every time I've posted a ??? the flamethrowers have come out..of course there are strong feelings on both sides..and by the way I do not "suck my tanks dry"

when I asked about fins, ?I get the same set of replys...until "I PM'd a Mares Rep. who gave me the advice I was looking for...go back and read the posts where the guy put in" I may be too ""lazy"" to look this up myself...there were 15 posts calling him every name in the book...so Blast away seems to be the modis operandi on this board...

"Stupid, idiot, Darwin award, dummy...." yep expected nothing less...until the adults post thoughtful reponses and reasoned attitudes....

as my old instructor told us, unless you take a knife to your throat & tie yourself to a line and overweight yourself, as long as you stay well within your dive plan/capabilities, nothing will happen ....

It was with much amusement I read the DAN accident reports for 2005 with over half of the fatalities had Alcohol drug use and unsafe practices as contributing factors...I do not recall lack of an Octo as contributing factor....[/QUOTE]


You do have a point. I think most of us take a look at this as completely unsafe practice not only to himself but to also those around him that he may get paired up with someday and they might not notice this or my be the first person someone comes to from the group and needs air due to equipment malfunction and ...... SOL. This could lead to a major panic situation that could cost them both their lives. All this for something as cheap as a octo? That could be you someday even if your husband is your buddy. OR might even be your husband. Think about it.

His analysis of the people who blasted him wasn't far off but dismissing this because some people don't have 1000's of dives tells me what kind of person and what kind of diver he is. Back in the day people this wasn't practiced all the time but people learned from it and its now almost unheard of. There is a reason for that. He started this thread off to rile us up and even posted "blast away". The one thing that I can say is that he won't dive in my group and I don't know any DM's who would allow him to dive with them but that is a judgement call on their part. It's their liability, not mine. All I can say is that he won't dive with me and he won't dive in my group. Ever. Want to see mutiny on boat, show up on mine.

But by all means, if you get your thrill from putting you life in danger and those around you, then have at it. I do believe it is your choice as much as it is my choice not to be around you when you do. Free will.

 

[MarcG]

That's a little harsh.....I can't begin to tell you how many dives I have made with no "occto", and neither did the person I was diving with. You may not be familliar with the term "double hose regs" but believe it or not, there was a time when we dove without MOST of the gear you have now. The technology is diferent now, and an occto is the uniform of the day,, but c'mon... Stupid? Answers like this are of no help at all.

"Answers like this are no help at all"...Well actually it wasn't an answer but rather a comment. I'm happy that you have made so many dives with no backup. Congrats. I am aware of how diving was done in the past. However I see no advantage to not carrying a backup secondary today. Personally I would not dive with some one that did not carry a backup of some sorts. You however can dive how you choose.