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NTSB CONCEPTION HEARING - THIS TUESDAY @ 10AM

Discussion in 'Accidents & Incidents' started by Ken Kurtis, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. O-ring

    O-ring Beyond the Pale

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    I made that argument in a thread a few months ago and was told that it was irrelevant and that I lacked the California liveaboard knowledge to comment on it further. Apparently it is common practice out there to sleep in Uggs, flip flops or boots while wearing a jacket or backpack and clutching a flashlight and mobile device.
     
    Michael3826 likes this.
  2. Marie13

    Marie13 Great Lakes Mermaid ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Great Lakes
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    I watched the NTSB hearings live. I’m pretty sure that was mentioned.
     
    eleniel and O-ring like this.
  3. O-ring

    O-ring Beyond the Pale

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    Me too. I came away from watching the NTSB hearings and reading the official report thinking that I was likely right and that for some reason there is a strong local movement among some of the CA dive community to control the narrative on this one for reasons that are unknown to me. I could speculate, but have decided not to and have resigned myself to spectator status since then. I think the facts are pretty clear to anybody that takes the time to listen to the hearings and dig into the official report.
     
    Michael3826, eleniel and darren a like this.
  4. HalcyonDaze

    HalcyonDaze Contributor

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Miami
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    That was the passage I was referring to, yes. The earlier items about footwear and bags were more open to speculation, particularly since it wasn't entirely clear whether those items were on the bodies or found close to them and included in the bag.
     
  5. Wookie

    Wookie Curmudgeon Apprentice ScubaBoard Business Sponsor ScubaBoard Supporter

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    What is it that you think you know that is being hushed up? It’s likely the passengers died a horrible death knowing exactly what was happening to them. I can read that right here in this thread, in the NTSB report, and in a host of other places. I don’t see a coverup. I do t see anyone trying to hide that data. What do you see that the rest of us do not?
     
    Bob DBF likes this.
  6. O-ring

    O-ring Beyond the Pale

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    Honestly, I don't really think I know anything. I originally suspected it was just a reluctance to face the abject horror of it and instead steer the narrative more toward something akin to sleeping angels passing quietly in their sleep. That makes sense to me...who could blame them. It's like not wanting to know about the jumpers on 9/11. There was some chatter on a couple of threads that made me question if there was something less honorable going on though and there might be either business partnerships or long-standing friendships coming into play and that might be a reason for distorting the truth. At that point I figured it was time to sit on the sidelines since there was obviously a lot more going on than I was privy to and the original advice about staying out of it because I don't know the CA liveaboard environment seemed like a good idea.
     
    shoredivr, eleniel and darren a like this.
  7. Wookie

    Wookie Curmudgeon Apprentice ScubaBoard Business Sponsor ScubaBoard Supporter

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    An awful lot of us had friends on that boat, friends, employees, clients. My clients wife, who happened to be a client a completely different way, was found halfway up the ladder, one shoe on, one in her hand with her cell phone.

    Some of us, especially other liveaboard owners, may not want to dwell on that, knowing how it could happen “to any of us“.
     
  8. O-ring

    O-ring Beyond the Pale

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    That makes complete sense to me. I'm sorry for your loss.
     
  9. Michael3826

    Michael3826 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Los Angeles
    21
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    Voting occurs Tuesday December 8. It’s likely to get passed, but it has been threatened to get vetoed.

    The families request that those who support the Small Passenger Vessel Safety Act which is included in the NDAA to please call your local representatives and let them know a fellow diver would like updated safety measures. It currently has support on both sides of the aisle, but every voice helps. Staffers love to hear from their constituents and can answer any questions you may have. The more input received across the country, the better.



    State leaders announce Conception Boat Safety Bill included in Defense Bill
     
    Brett Hatch likes this.
  10. Michael3826

    Michael3826 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Los Angeles
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    not speculation. Hard evidence: people had phones and lights in their hands and pockets. One had a charging cord wrapped around their wrist. Another Jeans on and Mismatched shoes. Glasses were found with a body. Keep trying to “speculate” your way out of it. You’ve read the reports. You know the truth. It’s fine that you don’t want to admit, but don’t spread misinformation. People woke up. Got dressed and hoped to be rescued. Trapped, scared, and hoping. You should dwell on that. Let it impact you. Make a change in you. They were awake long enough to get shoes, a cellphone, light, glasses, a jacket, pants, and or a back pack on. How quickly can you do that in the dark, with smoke, awake at 3am? The crew couldn’t even get dressed. Mike kohl’s was able to get his glasses, but Milton was not able to get his contacts. Couldn’t even be bothered to get the fire ax or a fire extinguisher. I SPECULATE that the passengers were woken by someone or the same thing, the alarm in their bunk, someone had investigated the exit or collectively they did and as beat they could prepared themselves to be rescued. People doing this either at the same time someone checked the exits or after. You can’t possibly believe 30 people will rush the stairs at once. They might try to find/check on their loved ones first. Less than a handful went on that trip without a friend or family member. Then when all hope was lost they took shelter together. Some could have passed out on the floor near the stairs, some retreating to bunks, maybe a few huddled in the back corner, and some may have never woken up. But do not suggest that those with shoes and gear slept like that. That’s obviously ridiculous.

    The post you were responding to was regarding burn shadows located at the foot of the stairs. How can the shadows be burnt in after the boat had sunk then flipped? The reports did not speculate that the burning occurred upside down. Yet, You are. The boat was burning for at least 4 hours before it sank. Once it sank and flipped the fire would have been extinguished, yes items and bodies moved, but the burn marks and shadows would have been intact. You can’t shift those around. So if an outline was present when they hauled it out then it’s because that’s where stuff burned while the fire was active, prior to the sinking. Oh, read Wookies response below yours.

    ps. The battery fire that caught fire the year before was around 4am. No night watch. 2 passengers just happened to be. One blasted the fire with a fire extinguisher. The other doused the battery in a rinse tank. They had to go up to the bridge and WAKE UP the crew to alert them. That’s all too familiar of a story. Infuriating. Wish we had known all that then. That’s in the ntsb interview from the other captain. Then it goes into a he said he said of “I told the owner” and Fritzler denying it. We’ll never know.
     
    Ayisha, eleniel, Hoyden and 4 others like this.

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