OK boys and girls, let's discuss finning techniques

[RonFrank]

I use a modified back flutter frog kick! If done properly, one will expend a lot of energy, and go nowhere!

Finning is important, but I think there is no one best fin, or best kick. My biofins are great for the flutter kick, but not as good for frog kicking, and next to impossible to do a reverse frog in. I find paddle fins best for frog kick styles.

I use splits when ocean diving where slit out is not much of a consideration, and I may have to kick into current. I switch between the frog, and flutter. If I'm hovering or moving slowly I use a frog or modified frog. Into current, or to catch up to a buddy I'll use the flutter.

For most fresh water, and dry diving I like a paddle fins, and tend so use the modified frog kick almost exclusively.

Videos as provided in the thread are likely the best way to visualize proper technique.

 

[Walter]

OK boys and girls lets discuss finning techniques

Except for the Japanese, I thought we were all pretty much in agreement that finning is a bad thing. If you must do it, use a very sharp knife and stay away from the shark's mouth.

Looks to me like you're discussing different types of kicks.

Flutter kick:
This is a straight leg kick

There are no truly straight leg kucks, but done properly, this one comes closer than any other except perhaps the scissor kick.

Needed most when catching up with someone else doing it better than you or when being chased by a predator.

Needed most when swimming against a strong current. If someone is swimming too fast, let 'em go. Relax on your dives. Being chased by predators is rare, when it happens, a flutter kick isn't going to give you enough speed to escape. If you aren't right at the boat, you need to bluff your way out of it, in which case the flutter is an excellent choice. Charge!

Frog Kick:
Commonly used by divers in an effort to reduce silting or stirring up the bottom. Most do not do this well and for all intents and purposes is not a very efficient kick in terms of overall propulsion.

I disagree. It's a very efficient kick. Kick and glide................kick and glide...........

Divers who claim split fins fail when using this style of kicking are not doing it right. Done properly can provide a relaxed dive with moderate propulsion.

Split fins don't fail, but they don't work nearly as well as some others. As far as I'm aware, splits only fail with a power flutter kick.

I like the bicycle kick myself.

Must be a fan of Force Fins.

Scissor and sculling are also very useful in their places.

 

[TSandM]

I actually think the most important thing about kicks is awareness of the diving environment where you are. In Puget Sound, our bottoms are almost always silty, and unless one is diving a long way up in the water column, a flutter kick is a bad choice, as it ruins the site for the people who come behind you. I was deeply saddened to hear Peter's DM instructor, a man of some 3000+ NW dives, say that he plans his routes so he won't cover the same ground twice, because the visibility will be too poor on the way back to take any pictures. It doesn't have to be that way.

Similarly, diving in close quarters, as we often do when investigating a group of fallen pilings, requires being aware of where your fins ARE, and modifying your kick so you don't damage anything. This is true whether you are using a flutter or frog type kick. This is also a consideration in places like Maui, where you are diving between big coral heads. Fins do damage when they hit!

Over pebbly bottoms, or in midwater, almost any sort of kick will do, if it gives you the amount of propulsion you want and you're comfortable doing it.

But it's well worth learning some of these alternate kicks, to make diving over fine sediments or in close quarters have less impact on the environment. Look behind you sometimes, to see how you are doing!

 

[SparticleBrane]

I was deeply saddened to hear Peter's DM instructor, a man of some 3000+ NW dives, say that he plans his routes so he won't cover the same ground twice, because the visibility will be too poor on the way back to take any pictures.

Honestly, the first time I read that...I thought it was one of the most pathetic things I'd ever read about diving.

 

[Hickdive]

I've been 'frog-kicking' for years, long before I even knew the name for it.

Whenever people ask about it I give them a simple demo;

First I frog kick as hard and fast as close to the bottom as I can manage without touching it for a few meters then turn and repeat back to my buddy. The return leg is always as clear as the outward leg.

The I repeat the process with a flutter kick, the difference ISN'T clear, if you see what I mean

 

[Rick Inman]

I actually think the most important thing about kicks is awareness of the diving environment where you are.

Right. It's none of my business how you kick, and as long as you're having fun your kick won't bother me.

Now, if you destroy the fun for the rest of us because you're too (lazy, selfish, apathetic, whatever) to learn the proper kick for the environment, then I'm bothered.

Especially if you're an instructor with a class. No excuse. Please find a place where no one else dives if you're class is going to destroy the diving for everyone else.

 

[ScubaTexan]

I usually use the scissor and frog kicks, but I sometimes do the dolphin kick for fun.

HIJACK ALERT

Has anyone ever pulled a hamstring muscle while kicking? I've done this once or twice and I know it's mostly from overexerting on kicks. I was just wondering if anyone else has had this problem in the past?

 

[ucfdiver]

I've fallen into the habit of using the modified frog kick almost 100% of the time. Anyone else find this the case?

 

[jbmooney]

I hope this isn't a hijack, but I've found that in the process of trying to develop a frog kick, I've found a variant that seems to work well, but can't define it (or maybe more accurately, don't know what I'm doing). I've asked a couple of instructors what I'm actually doing, but haven't gotten a good answer yet - either they say it's a frog kick or tell me I need to rotate my fins more, but can't tell me why what I'm doing is moving me forward. I wish I had a video, but I'm afraid I don't - I'm hoping that if I describe it, someone here can tell me what you'd call it (since it may well be one of the variants already discussed).

My problem is that I haven't yet mastered the art of rotating my fins to prevent stopping myself on the recovery part of the stroke. Without knowing what I'm doing, I seem to have modified the frog kick to do the following:

With legs spread to the sides (knees apart), I push my lower legs apart with ankles loose, so that my toes are pointed well aft, and the fin blades are actually moving water aft on the recovery stroke, as they come apart (I think this is what's happening - whatever it is, I move forward when it happens, though less than in the next part of the cycle). Then I bring them together in what is intended to be the power part of the frog kick stroke, but is probably a bit more of a mix between a frog kick and a dolphin kick (both legs moving at the same time, but not pressed together and with fins at more like a 45° angle than in direct opposition to one another).

I've only tried this in a pool, so I don't know for sure if it would stir silt on a soft bottom (the recovery portion might, though less than a flutter kick, I think), but it's fairly restful, and is modifiable to use large or small strokes. I find it quite comfortable, and it seems to get me around fairly efficiently.

I'll keep working on a frog kick, and keep asking people who can actually see it what this variant actually is, but I was just wondering - can anyone tell me from the description ("sculling", maybe? - I think it probably looks closest to the modified frog in the list of Dive-Tek images, but there's more work going on in the recovery stroke, I think)...

TIA....

 

[MikeFerrara]

Quote:
Recreational divers should learn them but may have limited use in common recreational diving.

I disagree with this. I have found the back kick to be immensely useful in common recreational diving. If you're drifting a wall and the current is tending to push you into it, you can face the wall and gently back kick and maintain your distance. If you see something interesting and the current is tending to push you past it, a back kick keeps you where you can look (or take a picture). On ascent and descent, back kicking allows you to stay in position with respect to your buddy or buddies, so you don't lose them.

The helicopter kick is also pretty useful for turning back if somebody behind you signals that there's something there to see, although you can always swim a small circle. But pivoting is easier and faster.

I hope folks read the above carefully. So many of the problems divers have stems from the fact that they haven't learned to use their feet to control their position and movement...not to mention that all the silting ruins so many dive sites for all of us.