outlook of a sprout

[boulderjohn]

A vocal minority of folks here on ScubaBoard do seem to have the fervor of recent religious converts for some equipment or practices, and take every opportunity to promote them. I mostly ignore them.

I fully agree.

I spend some time in just about every configuration possible.

When I am instructing, I use the same gear setup as my students, which is a jacket style BCD with a weight belt.

Whe I am vacation diving/traveling, I wear my old back inflate BCD with a conventional regulator setup, using the integrated weights and trim pockets. I feel very comfortable in it.

When I am technical diving, I use a Backplate and wing, doubles, long hose, (etc.) in a style that would warm the hearts of DIR enthusiasts. GI3 himself would have to look long and hard before finding a reason to curse me out.

I have played around with a wide variety of fins, and I prefer certain kinds. I also know other people who prefer other kinds.

Sometimes I wear a wet suit. Some times I wear a dry suit. It depends on the circumstances.

It all works just fine. Pick out what works for you, enjoy it, and don't worry about others.

I was once diving with someone who had his complete "regulation" gear setup, including a nearly $1,500 canister light, with the battery pack on his right hip and the line stringing over to the lamp in his left hand. I wear roughly the same thing when I am technical diving, but I asked him why he needed it in the dive we were doing then, on that beautiful sunny day in 70 feet of warm, tropical water with about 100 feet of visibility. It seems he didn't have a choice. That was the way he was taught was the correct way to dive, and that was the way, by golly, that he was going to do it.

I think there's more than one way to dive, and I think you can find the way(s) that work for you.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

Hey all; I just wanted to post my outlook on something. Now mind you I'm so new I'm not even green i'm a sprout, but it struck me when I saw this thread and my first reaction was to post, "Your not going to get any help here, everyone on here wears bp /w and of course those are so perfect they hang themselves. As for wetsuits probably not going to get any help there either as people around here catch a chill in water below 70 so they wear dry suits". Now is that really the opinion that you want a new diver to have; I think not.

Truth be told, when I went to the lds to buy my gear (I know I'm just a rebel, buying before trying, that's me, deal with it, Bought spit fins too OMG I'm going to drown :shocked2, I asked about a bp /w and instead bought a nice back inflate bc (AL Balance, it's a good shop really, they seem to know their stuff, I have a good bs meter and it didn't beep once, and i've spent ALOT of time talking with them)now mind you they do sell Dive Rite bp/w just didn't buy one. Seeing as I enrolled in the Nat Geo Class (yep that's right PADI), I figured it would be a good thing to have my BC since there is an emphasis on buoyancy. While I was at it I put a computer (oceanic pro plus 2, shut up I liked it and I liked what I read about it), and an Aqualung Legend lx Supreme on lay-a-way, after all what I read said that I should buy the best regulator I can afford.

Also as stated above I purchased split fins (shudder I know) v-16s by oceanic, and Aqualung Teknika (sp?) (It looked cool and fit good).

So from the looks of it, I'm going to drown and be so uncomfortable doing it. Damn!!!

I'm not sure if I had a point here, just sort of wanted to put this out there?now let's see how long it takes this post to burn to the ground.

p.s. now in saying all this i would like to point out that this place is a wealth of knowledge and i'd be lost without it, but this elitest view just keeps rearing it ugly little head.

Got it. And your point is... what exactly now?

 

[Web Monkey]

You are coming across (to me) as pretty arrogant acting as though you know better than people who have been diving for years or decades.

The OP wasn't arrogant at all, he just picked out equipment he liked and mentioned that he didn't like the "pile on the non-conformist" attitude here.

However as long as you mentioned arrogance . . .

Had a rear inflate BCD which was the first to go. The Halcyon BP/W makes horizontal trim much easier and it's so much less cluttered. Plus I LOVE not needing extra weight.

Two plastic milk jugs and a rope will also allow perfect trim. In fact, so will a tank, some duct tape and a bungee cord. No metal plate or blue H is necessary. Switching a stab jacket for a BP/W trades the ability to be easily stable in any position for easier horizontal stability. However both allow perfect trim. Also, FWIW you haven't eliminated any weight, you've just changed it from lead to steel.

Had Oceanic Delta IV/FDX10 yoke, I hated the way it free flowed on the surface and breathed wet. It's gone and now have SP MK25/S600 DIN with the G250v as a back up bungeed.

The Delta IV is a very nice regulator and won't freeflow if handled properly and kept serviced. In fact, if similarly tuned, the SP will behave in exactly the same way. If either breathes wet, cleaning or service is required.

Terry

 

[mikerault]

As I recall one quart volume of air equals 1 pound lead...so...how manyextra quart volumes of air do you think you need to stay warm?

I started with the vest style BCD, moved to a back inflate and have moved on to BP/W just because I like the simpliciy of the BP/W. I dive wetsuits in tropical water at 70 degrees and above and drysuits below 70 degress. It all boils down to dive in what you feel comfortable and are safe in using.

For example, I am sure there are folks here who swear by the DUI trilam dry suits. I dive a bilam and after trying out the more "advanced" trilam recently decided I liked my bilam more because of its freedom of movement and lower weight. All things be told I felt warmer in my bilam than I did in the trilam due to the narrow arms and legs compressing the underware I was trying out!

So...dive what you like...shoot you'll even find nakkid divers around here somewhere....makes doing the warhammer easier I guess...

Mike

 

[DivingPrincessE]

Two plastic milk jugs and a rope will also allow perfect trim. In fact, so will a tank, some duct tape and a bungee cord. No metal plate or blue H is necessary. Switching a stab jacket for a BP/W trades the ability to be easily stable in any position for easier horizontal stability. However both allow perfect trim. Also, FWIW you haven't eliminated any weight, you've just changed it from lead to steel.

The Delta IV is a very nice regulator and won't freeflow if handled properly and kept serviced. In fact, if similarly tuned, the SP will behave in exactly the same way. If either breathes wet, cleaning or service is required.

Terry

Nope, it was brand new, servicing wasn't an issue. It would switch from + (dive) to - (pre dive) if you just looked at it funny...every time it went to + on the surface it would free flow like a biatch. SP can be in + on the surface, no issue.

Oh and if you actually read what I wrote I said the BP/W makes horizontal trim easier. I didn't say it was impossible to get perfect trim without a BP/W But putting the weight above your lungs instead of in pockets at your side...yeah...easier...

 

[dkktsunami]

Hartl, you've figured this out really early in your diving career ...... haven't even hit the water yet but you know this stuff....... miles ahead of the rest of us.

 

[Jupiter31]

Don't know if I fully "get" you post; but you bought (IMHO) very good equipment.

I'm diving over 30 years, have well over 1000 dives, and still thinking about going to a back plate : ) I do have split fins, however!

On every board on the internet, you get a lot of info; sometimes you need to consider the source; sometimes they post in the spirit of being helpful, but with very limited experience - sometimes you just will totally disagree with their premise. Some folks I "like" b/c of their posts, some I would not want to dive or spend time with.

Personally, I try to post on what I know and have experienced; if I can save some one some time, money, hassle, etc, its all good. But at the end of the day, (even though I'm always right - LOL) its still just my (informed) opinion.

 

[John_B]

p.s. now in saying all this i would like to point out that this place is a wealth of knowledge and i'd be lost without it, but this elitest view just keeps rearing it ugly little head.

Yawn. Are you trying to get people on SB to validate the choices you made buying gear, before fully understanding your options? What's the point unless you could return everything to your LDS and get your money back (which isn't likely).

Just curious, do you also go to an Corvette car forum after you bought a Malibu and make similar statements?

For the record, what you are doing here is called being a troll.

 

[Wetbones]

Hartl, this type of discussion is exactly what got my interest piqued about the DIR/Hogarthian style of diving. You make a kind of defensive first post, expecting to get flamed for your gear choices, someone with a Halycon BP and scuba pro regs does in fact chime in, in a not nice/helpful way, then some people come to your defense telling you to be "wary" of that crowd, etc. Well. I started wondering a few things myself-why do the DIR people seem like such jerks? Why are they so despised by so many people on this board? What the hell is their problem? Who made them "Gods" of diving theory and practice? What is with all of the "Koolaid" "Darkside", "religious" comments? My LDS spoke of those DIR people with open contempt. I had taken all of my PADI classes from them-OW, AOW, Rescue. So I decided to find out what is was all about, and I decided to not try and figure it out from reading internet forums. I went and took a class. Here is some of the stuff I learned:
1. You can take this class with just about any gear/brand you want. You have to have a long hose primary and you must have non-split fins so you can learn all of the kicks.
2. Nobody cared what brand my regs/bc/wetsuit were.
3. I did it in a wetsuit, in SoCal in Feb. It was cold.
4. My instructors were the best divers I have seen it the water-ever.
5. Everyone (class and instructors) were super helpful, supportive and surprisingly nice.
6. I was taught gas planning.
7. I was taught some decompression theory.
8. Taught how to sequence a dive-who does what, who has what.
9. Taught what to do before every dive.
10. Taught personal skills-propulsion, bouyancy, and team skills-air sharing , communication.
That's a quick overview.

Do I know it all now? Nope. Do I know more about diving than when I started? Yep. Do I feel more comfortable and confident in the water? Yep. Do I feel more comfortable about the team or buddies I dive with knowing they were trained the same way I was? Yep. Did I sell every piece of gear that I originally bought? Yep. Except my regs. Do I feel the need to tell people what gear to get? Nope. Do I even think there is a "best" in gear manufacturer? No. Does my computer run my dives like it used to? nope. Are the dives more fun? Yes!
What happened to me is that once the training and gear configuration are explained and reasons are given as to why everyone has their gear a certain way, it just made sense to me. I couldn't understand why everyone wasn't taught this way from the beginning. I mean, PADI taught me how much PSI should be in my tank when I get on the boat, but they never told me WHEN to leave the bottom to accomplish this. Same with how much air to have in reserve should something happen to my buddy, to get us both to the surface safely. During my PADI classes the instructor made us all kneel on the bottom and do our skills-mask flood, remove and replace, etc, but why did they teach us that sitting on the bottom? I have never knelt on the bottom on any dive I have been on(except for a PADI class)! This other class made us do all of our skills 12" off the bottom-that way you see how your buoyancy is effected and consequently how important it is to dial that in should it actually happen to you while diving.
And here is my point. I am new too. Some divers are jerks, some are absolutely awesome people. I think the DIR crowd may be what most people would call "over-trained" if such a thing is possible. It makes me wonder though, now that I have done this-if the hobby that you are getting started on requires you to go on life support to do it, would you like to be "over-trained"? How about your buddies? It seems that some of these people are a little overzealous-don't let it bum you out. Just keep diving-or start I guess in your case, but don't be afraid to actually go out there in the world and check it out for yourself-you might be surprised in what you find. I was pleasantly surprised. And most importantly-have fun. This is supposed to be fun.

I am forever grateful to PADI-they got me started and got me into the water.

Did I ever figure out why the "DIR" people appear to be jerks most of the time? Nope, but so far I haven't met one DIR person in the real world that wasn't super cool.

I am also starting to wonder how many people out there have a "DIR gear configuration" and espouse the said configuration are actually trained in its use.

 

[captain]

I did change from what I started with but now 50 years later I am back to the gear I started with, seems my first and only choise at the time was the best.