PADI - Concerns about students skills.

[skippy311]

Hello all Instructors.

I have some concerns about a students conduct whilst on the Open Water course. This student is now a certified PADI diver. The student was able to meet all the criteria set out by the Instructor Manual however this student;

1. Refused to listen to safety advice of an experienced Diver (DMT) yesterday (dives 1 and 2).

2. Was unable to enter the water in a safe manner on any of her 4 dives, effectively bellyfloping rather than a wide stride or backward roll. (did enter safely on the pool dive)

3. Was unable to maintain neutral buoyancy without being pulled down by myself and panicked multiple times when buoyancy was corrected including performing an emergency ascent once.

4. Was unable to do simple things like put their own fins on.

Now I would like to make it clear; she did demonstrate the skills required to a satisfactory standard, however given her conduct and inability to master basic skills even under direct instruction of a Master Instructor I hold serious concerns for her ability to dive safely. Under the supervision of a DM or higher, I think she would be fine, but to dive autonomously with another newly certified diver, I could never suggest that in good conscience.

What protocols exist? Are there any conditions PADI can impose?

For legal and professional reasons I obviously cannot name and shame the diver. I am hoping some experienced instructors, who may have dealt with this before, can impart some wisdom.

Welcome to Padi!
as a diver from a different group I'd just like to say that diving is a lifelong sport. she needs to get experience and a passion for diving.

 

[tursiops]

Welcome to Padi!

I think what you mean is, Welcome to Inadequate Instructors. PADI has no monopoly on this.

 

[skippy311]

I think what you mean is, Welcome to Inadequate Instructors. PADI has no monopoly on this.

not quite, diving is a lifestyle and nobody regardless of age or cert can say they are more qualified than any diver who can enter and exit the water

 

[Gary_Ward]

Based on what you've said, most experienced instructors probably would not have certified this person. Everyone can be taught to dive (in my experience) its all about the time they have to do it. I will wear them down eventually!

The key piece is 'Mastery' which suggests the element is repeatable and they standards for PADI should not be interpreted as she fluked it once.

As a dive professional you have an obligation to report to PADI any standards or safety violations you personally witness. In this instance, I would suggest that is exactly what you do. A QA will be raised with the instructor and there will be a review. Nothing will likely happen, except that the instructor will be aware that someone around them believes they did not do the right thing and it will start a conversation for them inside the dive shop. If that changes their approach as a 'shot across the bow' warning, then good. Of course if it doesn't....

As for the diver - Its a shame as she will no doubt leave believing she is a reasonable diver for a beginner. If she is over-confident, it may exceed her competence and she could be a danger to herself - but for the certifying instructor this will be someone elses problem, and an issue we all see time and time again... Given time and a good, patient instructor she will likely improve

 

[tursiops]

not quite, diving is a lifestyle and nobody regardless of age or cert can say they are more qualified than any diver who can enter and exit the water

?? I have no idea what your point is.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

She will be bouncing off a reef somewhere as soon as the Covid ends.

 

[boulderjohn]

not quite, diving is a lifestyle and nobody regardless of age or cert can say they are more qualified than any diver who can enter and exit the water

?? I have no idea what your point is.

I don't even know what it means, let alone see the point.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hello all Instructors.

I have some concerns about a students conduct whilst on the Open Water course. This student is now a certified PADI diver. The student was able to meet all the criteria set out by the Instructor Manual however this student;

1. Refused to listen to safety advice of an experienced Diver (DMT) yesterday (dives 1 and 2).

2. Was unable to enter the water in a safe manner on any of her 4 dives, effectively bellyfloping rather than a wide stride or backward roll. (did enter safely on the pool dive)

3. Was unable to maintain neutral buoyancy without being pulled down by myself and panicked multiple times when buoyancy was corrected including performing an emergency ascent once.

4. Was unable to do simple things like put their own fins on.

Now I would like to make it clear; she did demonstrate the skills required to a satisfactory standard, however given her conduct and inability to master basic skills even under direct instruction of a Master Instructor I hold serious concerns for her ability to dive safely. Under the supervision of a DM or higher, I think she would be fine, but to dive autonomously with another newly certified diver, I could never suggest that in good conscience.

What protocols exist? Are there any conditions PADI can impose?

For legal and professional reasons I obviously cannot name and shame the diver. I am hoping some experienced instructors, who may have dealt with this before, can impart some wisdom.

You were not the certifying instructor, so not your call. If you were, and you refused to certify this person for the reasons you provided, PADI would absolutely back you in doing so. You can complain to PADI, but they will punt it as according to the certifying instructor, performance requirements were met.

Ultimately, if this person dies while scuba diving or is seriously injured, it is the certifying instructor who winds up in court, not you. Lord help them if the plaintiff's attorney contacts you.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I had a student like this many years ago, let's name her Francesca. She was highly motivated to become a certified diver, but she had very poor control of her body, and in some case of her brains (panicking easily and bolting to the surface).
Despite she managed to conduct all the mandatory exercises, I refused her the certification.
I am a CMAS instructor (more or less the same as BSAC), and I did never think I did the wrong choice.
She was later certified by PADI, and I was told that she became a decent (or perhaps even good) diver.
The reality is that I saw the potential, and a strong motivation. With one more month of training, I am sure I had been able to solve all her problems. But in the time of her holidays in the resort where I was working, two weeks, simply there was not enough time...

This reminds me of a student whom I refused to certify when I was teaching at a shop. He was a fatality waiting to happen, either himself or a dive buddy who he would abandon. So he joined the next class where another instructor did certify him, earning an extra $25. Hey, $25 is $25! </sarcasm>

 

[TMHeimer]

The basic question has been answered. I'll add that the good old term "mastery" comes up again (wstorms quoted the standard-- I question "repeatable" a bit in that IS a skill ever repeated when done correctly just to be sure?).
Basic stuff like putting on own fins. I figure Angelo is correct in with some more time he could fix such problems fine.
If you can't put on your own fins, I have to wonder--yet you can successfully doff & don the scuba unit at depth & on the surface?