Padi dive master swim test

[RJP]

That is incorrect, the Instructor Manual states:

Waterskills exercises
Have candidates complete five waterskills exercises, earning a combined exercise score of at least 15.There is no passing score for any single exercise.

As long as they score a total of 15 then a 1 is acceptable according to the standards. However if one of my students scored a 1 then I would assume that they weren't trying (unless they had a known physical condition that caused it) and they would fail to meet the minimum score for Professionalism.

A minimum of a 3 is required for each of the 24 dive skills.

Not "incorrect" per se; we merely set the bar a bit higher on the swim tests,

Also set bar higher on skills: had to get a "5" on each skill as well.

 

[WheelsUSN]

Not "incorrect" per se; we merely set the bar a bit higher on the swim tests,

Also set bar higher on skills: had to get a "5" on each skill as well.

Yes, it is incorrect. The instructor can encourage you to "set the bar higher" and achieve more than the minimum standard but if they refuse to certify you until you meet their higher standard even though you have met the standards listed in the instructor manual then they are violating standards.

As a PADI member you have agreed to report any standards violations that you have personally witnessed. Doing so would start a QA investigation where I am sure that your instructor would be informed that he was indeed 'incorrect' and could not "set the bar higher".

In addition your instructor did a poor job of teaching you about PADI standards and procedures if he taught you that you could decide if they were good enough or you could choose to change them without permission from PADI.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

The 800 for instructors is not timed, it is a pass or fail event not graded on a 1-5 scale. The standard from the Course Director's manual is:

9. Perform a facedown, nonstop swim for 800 metres/yards using a mask, snorkel and fins.

if we were still discussing the 800 for DMs then you are correct that your score would depend on your time.

I remember when I got my PADI instructor cert., one guy who traveled all the way from Vermont to florida for the test, failed the entire instructor exam because he was like 8 seconds too slow on the timed swim. Not sure how long it was, maybe 750 or 800 and don't know the time, but it was not hard, still I felt bad for the young guy. He was motivated and somewhat weak. I guess now he would have made it?

 

[TMHeimer]

WheelsUSN, Thanks for confirming this. I did the old course without the equip. exchange as part of it, so you needed 12 points. Please clarify what the minimum score for professionalism is.

RJP, Perhaps you mean you had to get a "3' on everything to be considered for working at the shop? I have heard that it is fine for a shop to have it's own requirements, which makes sense. Our instructor said she would "like" to see us get at least a 3 on each. If you needed at least 3s on all tests or you could not pass the DM course, it would seem your instructor violated the standard.

 

[WheelsUSN]

WheelsUSN, Thanks for confirming this. I did the old course without the equip. exchange as part of it, so you needed 12 points. Please clarify what the minimum score for professionalism is.

Professionalism
Verify that divemaster candidates score at least a 3 in each category below by the end of Practical Application.

1.Level of active, positive participation in the training sessions.
2.Ability to serve as a mentor to student divers.
3.Willingness to follow directions.
4.Positive attitude and demeanor toward student divers, certified divers and staff.
5.Positive attitude and practice towards caring for the environment.
6.General understanding of a divemaster’s role.
7.Appearance.

Score Criteria
5 Excellent
4 Above average
3 Acceptable
2 Below average
1 Unacceptable

 

[TMHeimer]

WheelsUSN, Yes, I understand the Professionalism aspect and grading of it. I'm confused though. You say if someone gets a "1" on any of the tests you assume they are not trying. Why would a candidate be not trying? Perhaps he gets a 1 on the 400 because he didn't do enough lap training beforehand, perhaps he got a 5 on all the other tests? Perhaps he's just not a fast swimmer--we've all gotten into the debate of exactly how important or not actual swimming without fins is regarding diving, rescuing, etc. Since getting 15 points one way or another (as long as you finish each test and don't conk out) is the standard, I assume you would pass someone on the Stamina Test section who got a 1 but got the 15 points, no? But then if you fail them on Professionalism because they got one "1", it would seem you would be trying to really fail them on the stamina tests by, as lawyers would say, doing an end run around the constitution, going in the back door. If one fails Professionalism, one doesn't finish the DM course. I'm not saying you'd do that, I'm just unsure of exactly what you mean.

It's been a fairly long while since I took the course, but I thought each component was graded separately. So to fail some one on Professionalism when they passed a separate component--the Stamina Tests--yet the reason Professionalism was a fail was because of that other component --doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[RJP]

Yes, it is incorrect. The instructor can encourage you to "set the bar higher" and achieve more than the minimum standard but if they refuse to certify you until you meet their higher standard even though you have met the standards listed in the instructor manual then they are violating standards.

RJP, Perhaps you mean you had to get a "3' on everything to be considered for working at the shop? I have heard that it is fine for a shop to have it's own requirements, which makes sense. Our instructor said she would "like" to see us get at least a 3 on each. If you needed at least 3s on all tests or you could not pass the DM course, it would seem your instructor violated the standard.

Yes, I should have been clear. The higher expectations are "to become one of our divemasters" not "to become certified as a divemaster." For me, though, that was a difference without a distinction.

 

[WheelsUSN]

WheelsUSN, Yes, I understand the Professionalism aspect and grading of it. I'm confused though. You say if someone gets a "1" on any of the tests you assume they are not trying. Why would a candidate be not trying? Perhaps he gets a 1 on the 400 because he didn't do enough lap training beforehand, perhaps he got a 5 on all the other tests? Perhaps he's just not a fast swimmer--we've all gotten into the debate of exactly how important or not actual swimming without fins is regarding diving, rescuing, etc. Since getting 15 points one way or another (as long as you finish each test and don't conk out) is the standard, I assume you would pass someone on the Stamina Test section who got a 1 but got the 15 points, no? But then if you fail them on Professionalism because they got one "1", it would seem you would be trying to really fail them on the stamina tests by, as lawyers would say, doing an end run around the constitution, going in the back door. If one fails Professionalism, one doesn't finish the DM course. I'm not saying you'd do that, I'm just unsure of exactly what you mean.

It's been a fairly long while since I took the course, but I thought each component was graded separately. So to fail some one on Professionalism when they passed a separate component--the Stamina Tests--yet the reason Professionalism was a fail was because of that other component --doesn't seem to make sense.

i guess my response was a little too general. Since I would actually be observing the candidate take the test it should be apparent if they are doing their best or if they have decided that they already have enough points from other events that they do not need to put any effort into the remaining events. I would not just assume they got a 1 because they were not trying but if it was obvious that they were not putting any effort into it just because they had met the minimum score then that would affect their professionalism score in both the first and third categories from the list I posted earlier.

Professionalism can not be graded totally separate from the other sections, you can't tell someone "Go act professional so I can grade you on it." It is graded by observing their actions throughout the duration of the course. In my opinion if someone is not putting effort into what they are doing then it should affect their score in the first and third category I listed in post 35.

The candidate would be counseled that their lack of effort would affect their professionalism scores and that in order to bring that score back up to a passing level they would have to go above and beyond for the remainder of the course.

 

[DCBC]

If your in-water skills aren't at least double these requirements, I'd be asking myself it I should take-up another hobby...

 

[crosshairs]

Mine was in the southern Caribbean and there was plenty of reef to look at.

I did mine in Cozumel, right behind the Barracuda bar.....I swam the shoreline,400 meters down the beach then 400 meters back...was a nice easy swim going down, not so much fighting the current coming back...

But the view of the bottom during the swim was nice