PADI gave member info to US Government

[Walter]

Can someone explain to me why they just got PADI records and not NAUI, SSI, or any other agencys?

They went to all agencies, not just PADI. I'm hearing here, although I do not know, that PADI gave them everything when they asked. YMCA told them to get a warrant detailing what records they were entitled to receive. I do not know how other agencies responded.

 

[RIDIVER501]

It's a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I applaude the Gov/FBI for acting on this information. If some ship got blown up in a US Port by the kind of divers this report identified as a potential threat everybody would be crying about how there should have been something done to prevent it. So act and gather the information (damned if you do) let terrorists have free reign (damned if you don't)

As stated in a previous post on this thread I cooperated with the FBI and turned over the info requested which was.
Name, last known address and Phone number, and reason for failure to compelete the scuba couse they had signed up for(if known) for all students that failed to get certified. We aren't talking social security numbers credit card info or Prom dates measurements here people. Let's put this in perspective every one is pissing and moaning about the information the goverment sought for defense of our nation and our citizens. how about being outraged at all the orginizations that collect and distribute information on each and everyone of us everyday for, spyware on our shopping habits, our financial institution on our banking and financial status, the local service provider who is looking to telemarket and or junk mail you to death to make you thier customer.

The security situation we are in the modern world is a double edge sword. there is a cry for protection and there is a cry for privacy. in the information age you unfortunately can't have both. privacy and protection need to be balanced.

Is it a violation of my privacy for you to be able to see and record my incoming phone number on a caller ID box? Some would say yes. how can I make an anonymous phone call if my number is recorded? Is it a violation of privacy if to have the ip address of your computer recorded and correlated based on computer searchs you do and the web sites you hit? if you are looking for recipies for cookies of course not, but if you are researching how to contruct weapons of mass destruction, and suppliers of components we might want the people who are covering our back sides while we sleep to have that info.

Bottomline is not all of our personal information is as sacred as we would like to believe

 

[MikeFerrara]

So if the means of gathering evidence is to bust down our doors and search our homes is that okay.

I don't think so but that's not what they did.

Is it okay to stop our cars and our persons and rifle through our belongings.

Don't they already do this...road block check points?

It all starts with easily giving in on the small demands.

Things swing back and forth. A few years back the IRS started abusing powers it was given to make it easier to hurt drug dealers so thengs changed again.

Mothers against drunk drivers decided that it was ok to set up road blocks. when some of them are stopped to be checked for booze and get arrested for breaking some one elses pet peave law they'll changer their mind about it.

At one time you couldn't be forced to testify against yourself but they sure found a way to make things tough on you if you don't want to blow a breath test don't they?

No one ever thinks that the power they consent to give the government is going to be used against them but in the long run if often is.

People don't get it and they never will. We want the freedom to come and go as we please and we want privacy but yet we're willing to blame the FBI for not knowing what's going to happen and preventing it.

All law enforcement works much better for finding out who did it and punishing them than it does for figuring out who is going to do it and stopping them. you can't stop any one from breaking the law unless you watch them and control them.

 

[junglejim]

Just because you´re paranoid doesn´t mean they´re not out to get you.

 

[SteveDiver]

I have mixed feelings on this topic. To me PADI sharing the information with the FBI is really no big deal and it is in the interest of National Security. What can PADI really offer them besides our names, cert level, address anyway? On the other hand, I have a real problem with companies sending our personal information over sea! ie: credit card companies, medical records, banks etc.

 

[RIDIVER501]

I have mixed feelings on this topic. To me PADI sharing the information with the FBI is really no big deal and it is in the interest of National Security. What can PADI really offer them besides our names, cert level, address anyway? On the other hand, I have a real problem with companies sending our personal information over sea! ie: credit card companies, medical records, banks etc.

Exactly Stan, and oh by the way the other agency out there did too. But i guess it is only a big deal if PADI does it...the other agencies don't count

 

[Potapko]

In addition, what do you expect PADI to do? Say no? Would it be worthwhile for PADI to fight this? Say the results are increased costs to pay for those legal fees? That behavior could also result in more government involvement of the certification process in the name of terrorism.


There is a small issue of "having probable cause" in order to get this court order. Some agencies will say anything of it will cause you to give them what they want. I also do not have anything to "hide". That is not the point. I do however fear my government.

Why do you think there is such a push for "gun control" in our country? U.S. that is. The founding fathers said it well. Ben Franklin said, poorly quoted, People who give up their freedoms in order to have security, will end up with neither. Or deserve neither, I forget.
The second is the Founding father who said, with guns we are citizens, without them we are subjects!!!
The govt/FBI has no business demanding records, in general, from any group. If they have a suspect, fine, they can get a court order and get the records. Otherwise, watch out for what is next.

Sorry, I just can't finish here. Who is it performing these terrorist acts? Is it the 90 year old lady they are frisking at the airport? If they really go after the ones doing the crime, the ACLU files a lawsuit for "profiling". Sorry, if there is a group that needs to be "understanding" about giving up info, it is those who fit the profile of those doing the terrorist acts!

sorry for the rant,

 

[scubasean]

Why do you think there is such a push for "gun control" in our country? U.S. that is. The founding fathers said it well. Ben Franklin said, poorly quoted, People who give up their freedoms in order to have security, will end up with neither. Or deserve neither, I forget.
The second is the Founding father who said, with guns we are citizens, without them we are subjects!!!

Those "quotes" are about citizens protecting themselves against the govt, and have nothing to do about protecting themselves against "non govt individuals..."...

 

[RIDIVER501]

Those "quotes" are about citizens protecting themselves against the govt, and have nothing to do about protecting themselves against gangbangers...

ok and the gangbanger comment figures into this thread....How?

 

[scubasean]

ok and the gangbanger comment figures into this thread....How?

sorry...changed comment to "nongovt individuals..."...

touchy, touchy....

heh