PADI Nitrox Course Review

[TMHeimer]

The OP complains about poorly worded questions, and then provides an example that is NOT poorly worded.



UMM, the correct answer is A & B as PADI indicates.

So explain to me how one can get O2 tox OR DCS from improperly FILLING a tank?

I think PADI has dumbed their tests down to the extreme, and we still get folks complaining. So does the OP want to explain how this question is confusing? The only thing worst than missing that question is then going online and broadcasting this foolishness to the world.....

PADI is not the best organization on earth, but in this case I have to wonder what you were thinking?

Well, if you have a flat repaired and the shop fills it with an improper amount of air this is not the best way to be driving. The improper fill has a slight potential to cause an accident--skidding maybe. Yes, you could and perhaps should check the tire pressure yourself. I think everyone here understands the difference between filling tanks and verifying their contents. The question could have read:
c. your buoyancy will be affected.
d. your gas consumtion at depth will be affected.
Silly I know. But that would be 100% clear.

 

[Thalassamania]

I can think of few poorer values in diving than NITROX "courses." The material is so simple, and contains such a dearth of information, and is so easily and conveniently added to the special case information for NITROX-21 that is already in an entry level course that I see the existence of NITROX "courses" as an exemplar of the triumph of greed over content ... but then Bill Hamilton quoted my sacasm on the subject at the opening of the DEMA NITROX workshop in New Orleans, where, in his opening comments, he noted that I had observed that NITROX has no place in recreational diving since recreational divers could not be expected to master the two critical learning objectives of NITROX training: breathe in, breathe out, control your depth and your dive time.

 

[soltari675]

I think you should look at the instructor more than the course materials. I tend to think of the Padi books and dvd's as guidelines to what I should be learning at more depth. When I took my enriched air course in February this year, We covered:

Common blends
the benefits of using nitrox
the hazards of using nitrox including O2 toxicity and depth limitations
How to read the tables, including planning a dive on those tables
How to analyze a tank and the procedure for documenting
The importance and safety of analyzing your own tank
Even more stress on not exceeding the MOD and why
How to set a computer for nitrox as well as hazards to watch for (like some computers resetting back to 21% after a dive)
Marking a tank clearly so it is known what the contents are
Inspection sticker differences for our tanks and the importance of getting air from O2 clean sources

I am sure I am missing something in there we covered. I've used nitrox ever since so sometimes it seems like common sense to me. Just habit. But the point is the instructor I had used the Padi stuff as a rough outline, and made sure I understood every aspect of the course. And he didn't charge nearly as much as yours did. I think I paid $65 for mine. So maybe it's time to find a new instructor for you?

 

[Thalassamania]

I think you should look at the instructor more than the course materials. I tend to think of the Padi books and dvd's as guidelines to what I should be learning at more depth. When I took my enriched air course in February this year, We covered:

Common blends - 32% and 36% that's all that should be taught at this level.
the benefits of using nitrox - increased distance to the no-D limit that can be taken as safety margin or bottom time, or shortened SIs.
the hazards of using nitrox including O2 toxicity and depth limitations - Divers should already "mastered" this for NITROX-21, the rest is just a minor extension to other percentages.
How to read the tables, including planning a dive on those tables - already learned this about NITROX-21, tables are formatted the same, all the decision numbers (time and depth) are identical, nothing new here.
How to analyze a tank and the procedure for documenting - That should take maybe 5 minutes, being generous.
The importance and safety of analyzing your own tank - Maybe 30 seconds, being generous
Even more stress on not exceeding the MOD and why - Divers should already "mastered" and "tested" these knowledge objectives in their OW course.
How to set a computer for nitrox as well as hazards to watch for (like some computers resetting back to 21% after a dive) - Since one can't cover all the different computers, I'd limit that to the "hazard" of switching back.
Marking a tank clearly so it is known what the contents are - Say to the student, "Here's a tag, here's a Sharpe, can you write the mix and MOD?"
Inspection sticker differences for our tanks and the importance of getting air from O2 clean sources - For 40% and under there is no eff'n difference. So as long as you avoid partial pressure fills, which are pretty much gone from what I see except for garage home brew operations, you're fine.

Are we up to ten minutes yet? I didn't think so.

I am sure I am missing something in there we covered. I've used nitrox ever since so sometimes it seems like common sense to me. Just habit. But the point is the instructor I had used the Padi stuff as a rough outline, and made sure I understood every aspect of the course. And he didn't charge nearly as much as yours did. I think I paid $65 for mine. So maybe it's time to find a new instructor for you?

The problem is, as usual, that the main rationale for the NITROX course is to teach things that should have been "mastered" in OW. Sound familiar? Can anyone spell PPB? When are we going to have a separately priced mask clearing class?

One is therefore forced by the logic of the issue to either argue that the OW class is insufficient, or so poorly taught that the information is not retained, or that the NITROX class is just a toll booth on the way to a NITROX fill, nothing more.

 

[Quero]

That's a really lovely attitude to cultivate.

Some of us are overachievers, and hate to have anything marked "wrong". I always dispute at least one or two questions on any PADI exam. I think they are often ambiguous, although I don't think I would have misread the intent of this one. But I understand where the OP is coming from in having done so.

I know. I'm one of those too. In my entire IE I got just one question wrong (in the Standards exam), and it was due to the wording of the question, not my understanding of the topic, so yeah. I know. But I made a conscious decision to let it go, and now I can't even remember what the question was or how it was worded. It just doesn't matter.

While I recognize that there are certain questions in the various PADI knowledge reviews, quizzes and tests that people routinely stumble on, they aren't the ones that bug me the most. The ones I personally dislike, since they don't explore any kind of thinking process but only verbatim copying or rote memory, are the KR ones that go like this: What are the seven .....? or List the three..... The questions that provoke discussion for whatever reason (even if it's ambiguity) are the ones that give me more opportunities to engage the student with the concepts. The listing ones everybody gets right, and they teach almost nothing.

 

[jar546]

In my humble opinion, I believe that the OP did not "overthink" question #7, but simply did not read it properly. If there are any complaints with the outcome of the course then it sounds to me like an instructor issue as the knowledge portion is only part of the course. The knowledge portion lays a minimum foundation for the instructor work from.

 

[soltari675]

The problem is, as usual, that the main rationale for the NITROX course is to teach things that should have been "mastered" in OW. Sound familiar? Can anyone spell PPB? When are we going to have a separately priced mask clearing class?

One is therefore forced by the logic of the issue to either argue that the OW class is insufficient, or so poorly taught that the information is not retained, or that the NITROX class is just a toll booth on the way to a NITROX fill, nothing more.

Nitrox has a bit more to think about, more than an OW student needs to at the moment. So yes, I agree that the class should be there. Should it take a long time? No. It's about a 45 minute to an hour class. And I believe I got my time/money worth. In response to the above:

Common Blends: We did learn 32 and 36 were the most common, however we also went over why other blends could be useful. And I have used other blends, though nothing over 36 so far. Why would you need this in OW? You only use 21%

Hazards of using nitrox: Of course I learned in OW about it, so a point. On air and diving recreational limits, especially the recommended max 60 ft after OW, you're not going to get into the problems of O2 toxicity. Now with nitrox, it becomes a very possible danger. It should be stressed and I am glad it did. Now instead of just being told about it a bit, you get an in depth look. I see no problem with this and am glad it is done.

Tables: True, it's pretty much the same as the 21% tables. However it doesn't hurt to go over what differences there are, and there are a couple. Also to be safe, since a lot of people don't use tables regularly, it never hurts to go over it.

Computers: Actually, since most of us dive with this particular shop consistently, our instructor went over the computers he sells and how to set the O2 levels. From there, anyone can just about figure out how to set their own if they have a different one. I knew how to set my computer since I went the the manual very thoroughly when I bought it, but I did not know about the reset after a dive. Thankfully mine does not do that. But a couple buddies of mine, theirs does. While I do believe people should know their computer, why would an OW student change their mix on their computer?

Marking a tank: Most places that I have been to require marking mix, mod, and your initials. It seems like common sense to me now, and a bit even when I took the class. But it's nice to know what is standard and expected. I really hate being the one being new and trying to figure out the normal procedures. Why would an OW student ever do this?

Inspection Stickers: Actually the stickers are different. And yes, I do dive a couple places that do partial fills, including my LDS, except for 21%. It's not a problem. He gets the mix right where I want it every time. But had he not told me about the sticker and the O2 clean part I would have not known. I've seen the same method are other locations as well. Perhaps not as uncommon as you thought? Why would an OW student need to do this since they only use 21%?

So I believe there is a bit of knowledge here that an OW student shouldn't need to worry about while trying to get the hang of more important things such as buoyancy and their basic skills. I understand why this course is separate. I don't think it needs to be hours long, but spending 45 minutes or so on it is reasonable.

 

[TMHeimer]

I know. I'm one of those too. In my entire IE I got just one question wrong (in the Standards exam), and it was due to the wording of the question, not my understanding of the topic, so yeah. I know. But I made a conscious decision to let it go, and now I can't even remember what the question was or how it was worded. It just doesn't matter.

While I recognize that there are certain questions in the various PADI knowledge reviews, quizzes and tests that people routinely stumble on, they aren't the ones that bug me the most. The ones I personally dislike, since they don't explore any kind of thinking process but only verbatim copying or rote memory, are the KR ones that go like this: What are the seven .....? or List the three..... The questions that provoke discussion for whatever reason (even if it's ambiguity) are the ones that give me more opportunities to engage the student with the concepts. The listing ones everybody gets right, and they teach almost nothing.

I'm the same as well. I became a "studier" in Jr. High and H.S. Not really a perfectionist, but close. Got super high grades, though not smarter than the average guy. It always irritated me when I knew the stuff back & forth and a teacher had to throw in a "trick" question. But yeah, you let it go--just something interesting to talk about on SB.

 

[Doc]

Does anyone gets their tanks filled at 'welding fill suppliers'?

In that you were certified BSAC in the 1970's, likely most readers here do not understand what that means.

First though, yes- welding supply houses can be a legitimate source for breathing air and gasses. The bigger shops sell aviation and medical grade Oxygen. (which is merely a variance degree of moisture) This may make you shiver- but in the 1950's and 60's, SCUBA air fills were sold at "gas stations" (car garages) throughout the US. Look in the classifieds section of any dive magazine of that era.

What most readers here do not know- BSAC, certainly in the 1970's, is/was a certification agency unlike any other. It depends heavily on the "Club" association, where your future dive buddies shepherd you (quite laboriously) through the process of learning to dive. Back in the day, I don't know how long you had to stand on the shore and assist before you could even get wet, but that isn't much of an exaggeration.

The other thing that most here do not know- To the American ear, BSAC sounds like they're saying "Bees-zack" when it is pronounced. Was it really all that much different than our doing push-ups in FULL rig (wetsuit, weights and tanks)?

One should never teach their wife (etc) in an instructor/student relationship. My wife recently got her nitrox card from a different instructor. When it was all done, I gave her the Peter Guy "short course": dive 32%, 100' max, breathe.

It is 10 minutes of information packed into 4 hours.

Will I use Nitrox in future?

I would take your criticism a lot more seriously if you had remembered the one fun-dumb-nitpicky fact about the EAN Course... nitrox is not capitalized.

 

[Peter Guy]

R-man -- I hope she learned as much from "my" course as I have learned from this thread!

KWS -- did you really think I was serious? The "30 second nitrox course" is designed to set people at ease AND to show them there really is no mystery about using a blended gas. The "real" class does take about 6 hours (sorry Thal, sometimes things just take time):

a. 90 minutes (more or less) to discuss "Air Supply Management" (http://www.tsandm.com/gm/ppt-asm.pdf) -- which typically is NOT covered in a PADI OW or AOW class

b. Some time discussing the balance between planning on NDL limits and Air Supply limits

c. Videos and demonstrations on using three different, but common, gas analyzers (10 minutes)

d. 10 minute video demonstrating how a continuous flow system and partial pressure system work -- showing the compressor, different filters, etc.

e. "Practical" analyzing two tanks, pressure and mix -- demonstrating marking etc (about 5 minutes per student)

f. Knowledge Review reviews -- in addition to "grading" the KRs (I typically give the students the PADI answers before the class), we talk about the questions I believe are actually important. This may take 10 minutes -- it may take 60 -- depends on the students.

g. Practical problem solving -- I give each student a worksheet with MOD and EAD formulas, then give them a couple of dives for planning purposes and using the tanks they've analyzed, they have to work out complete dive plans, including pressure groups (even on computer based learning) using the tables -- this may take a few minutes -- may take a lot longer

h. Final exam and discussion -- 10 - 40 minutes

This is the whole class (as I recall) but it REALLY DOES take only 30 seconds to learn how to safely use nitrox!