PADI Rescue - Bait & switch?

[padiscubapro]

Hmmmmmm, unless I missed something on PADI's site, then I smell a rat or a badly performed first sale.

The EFR or (MFA as was) has always been a prereq for Rescue. It is usually sold seperately (although one LDS near here bundles it) as it is a stand alone course in its own right.

O2 is a seperate course and according to PADIs site not a prereq for Rescue. (not to say that it's not a good idea to do with Rescue though)

This is from the 4th quarter training bulletin.. The new manual is supposed to be online but sadly its not up there yet..

"• Specific objectives require all rescue divers to handle
and administer emergency oxygen, thus better
preparing them to assist in actual emergency situations."

Based on the above quote, the person is supposed to already be familiar with oxygen administration..

 

[Welsh_Dive_Pro]

Personally I think the whole course should be done in Open water, not many rescues will be done in 3 to 15 ft of water now will they ?

IMHO, allowing this to take place in a pool is a dumbing down of the course.

All of the skills MUST be done in the open water, however, the instructor may go through the skills previously in the pool. The difference is that where before everything had to take place over two days (still the case if no pool work is done), now, if skills are done in the pool, the course may be completed over one day (the skills must still be done in the o/w though). So in theory, it isn't dumbing down the skills at all, just allowing the instructor to use a more controlled environment to introduce the skills.

With regard to the CPR & First aid, this was always a pre-requisite for certification as a RD, the difference being that previously the diver could do the RD course, then do the MFA/EFR (other course) and then get certified, this is now not the case, they have to be CPR & First Aid certed prior to KD session 2 and training session 2.

Another addition to the course is that the RD student now has to prepare an emergency assistance plan for the site prior to the first scenario.

I can't comment as yet on the oxygen as I haven't fully read through the new guide. I'll try and get back to you on it.

HTH

 

[Welsh_Dive_Pro]

This is from the 4th quarter training bulletin.. The new manual is supposed to be online but sadly its not up there yet..

It may be an area thing but it is available on the padi pros website under training and education. It was posted on 22nd Oct. If it isn't there let me know and I'll email you a copy.

 

[HammerNoMore]

With regard to the CPR & First aid, this was always a pre-requisite for certification as a RD, the difference being that previously the diver could do the RD course, then do the MFA/EFR (other course) and then get certified, this is now not the case, they have to be CPR & First Aid certed prior to KD session 2 and training session 2.

Yes, and the new manual clearly statest that it doesn' *have* to be the EFR course but it is recommended.

I can't comment as yet on the oxygen as I haven't fully read through the new guide. I'll try and get back to you on it.

From what I can tell, oxygen is now covered fairly heavily as part of the knowledge development and is now part of the practial exercises. It seems to cover everything that the O2 specialty covers. I see no reason why a PIC could not be issued for an O2 specialty after rescue is completed.

As far as the cost of the course is concerned. Rescue is rescue, the shop should honor their price. There are only two things I can see here that would justify an increase:

1) If Rick is not certified for Primary/Secondary care and was planning to do this on his own *after* the rescue course. In this case he would be required to do it before, but could still go do it at the local Y or somthing.

2) If Rick wants an O2 card, the shop could justify asking for another $20 for the PIC.

If the shop decides that adding O2 into the cirriculum warrants an increase in price, great, but they still have to honor their previous commitments.

James

 

[The Kraken]

If you've already paid for the course, they can't charge you an additional fee.

You purchased, in full and for the consideration of $?, a course in its usual and customary construction. They offered a service, you gave consideration, they accepted, they must perform.

What you have is a bi-lateral contract. They offered a service, you paid for it in full. The LDS is required by law to provide the product.
Will hold up in any court of law in the land.

 

[WileEDiver]

There's one other practical matter that must be taken into consideration. There are new Rescue Diver materials that correspond to the new course. [One change in particular: In the old manual chapter 2, the chapter on First Aid, had much of the same material that was in the EFR class. Making the CPR portion a prerequisite meant that they could replace that with more "rescue"-related content.]

PADI says that they have sold all of the old manuals and only have the new materials to sell. So if you LDS has old stock, they can still conduct the old program until July 1. If they no longer have the old materials and only have the new stuff, they will have to conduct the new program.

Not only that, but within a class they won't be able to mix old and new stock. All students will need the same materials.

And, guys, there's no conspiracy going on here. Can we hold up on the lawyers for now? Why is it that so many people's first reaction is "Let's sue the bast****"?

 

[scubadoguk]

PADI says that they have sold all of the old manuals and only have the new materials to sell. So if you LDS has old stock, they can still conduct the old program until July 1. If they no longer have the old materials and only have the new stuff, they will have to conduct the new program.

Not only that, but within a class they won't be able to mix old and new stock. All students will need the same materials.

And, guys, there's no conspiracy going on here. Can we hold up on the lawyers for now? Why is it that so many people's first reaction is "Let's sue the bast****"?

I would say that tracking down old/new manuals won't be hard for a dive store for most stores its a case of customers there just ain't that many right now and trying to rip a customer a new one would do little to endear them, new course or old LOOK AFTER THE CUSTOMER

 

[The Kraken]

WileEDiver wrote:
"And, guys, there's no conspiracy going on here. Can we hold up on the lawyers for now? Why is it that so many people's first reaction is "Let's sue the bast****"?"

. . . I assume this response was made in allusion to my post.

Nowhere did I mention litigation, I alluded only to the legal requirements of each party established by the making of a contract. My reference to the courts was simply that should one want to pursue a suit on such a small sum that there would be ample precedent to pre-empt the need for such action.

 

[Rick Inman]

I wouldn't want to sue these guys, 'cause I might win and end up owning the shop! :11:
Actually, what they're saying is that I will want the new and improved course. They just got back from the DEMA briefing with their PADI rep and they're all fired up about this new Rescue course. The attitude is kind of like, gee, why wouldn't you want this better course? Sure it cost a little more, but it's no big deal and it's worth it.
Anyway, tonight I'll try to nail these guys down on the increase and post it here. No mater what they say, I respond, "What?? That much more?? Come on guys, cut me a deal here." And they will.
Thanks.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I signed up, and paid for the PADI Rescue course last month. Then, yesterday, I was told that there are some new changes/updates in the course and I would need to pay an additional fee. "How much?" I asked. Don't know. They will find out.
The updates, I'm told, include the addition of Emergency First Response, and training in the proper handling and providing of oxygen to an injured diver. I think this is good, and I really don't mind paying a little more for this education. But don't tell my LDS, 'cause I'm really enjoying giving them some smack, and accusing them of used-car-salesman-type bait and switch - all in fun, of course.
Anyway, what have you heard about the new PADI Rescue Course? What do you think about the changes?

Rick ... FWIW, most LDS offer these as a separate class, although (at least with NAUI) Medic First Aid, CPR, and O2 Provider are required in order to complete the Rescue curriculum.

My recent class included them as part of the course ... for $250. Use that as a benchmark for giving your LDS some smack ... :

... Bob (Grateful Diver)