PADI tables finally going away?
- Thread starter jgros79
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120 days, and...
.......
Meanwhile .... we have released 7 specialty classes for 7 different dive computers
Alberto (aka eDiver)
I use both dive computer and tables. Before heading off on a trip I run through the use of tables myself and with my kids. After each dive I calculate my RNT using max depth and tables. Why?
Well, tables don't need batteries to work. I work with technology and it has limitations - it can crap out on you at the most difficult of times. I plan for when, not if that happens. If my computer dies I can carry on diving and remain safe. Perhaps this is overkill but so what - better safe than sorry.
Working tables at altitude and with different nitrox mixes has given me a much more detailed understanding of dive physics than I could ever have got from lectures.
I hear and I forget.
I see and I remember.
I do and I understand.
Tables seem like the easiest and most standard way to do. It is probably possible to do with computers in planning mode but they are all slightly different in implementation and they do not force you to think about what you are doing. The thinking part is hard, a lot of people these days don't want to think (brains its hard to exercise and thinking is exercise for brains) and fall for the convenience of letting tools or others do their thinking for them.
Having said that, I love my dive computer and all the facilities it gives me such as post dive profile analysis. I would not go without it for anything. But its a tool and when it fails we need a backup strategy - just like your pony bottle.
Paul.
Well, tables don't need batteries to work. I work with technology and it has limitations - it can crap out on you at the most difficult of times. I plan for when, not if that happens. If my computer dies I can carry on diving and remain safe. Perhaps this is overkill but so what - better safe than sorry.
Working tables at altitude and with different nitrox mixes has given me a much more detailed understanding of dive physics than I could ever have got from lectures.
I hear and I forget.
I see and I remember.
I do and I understand.
Tables seem like the easiest and most standard way to do. It is probably possible to do with computers in planning mode but they are all slightly different in implementation and they do not force you to think about what you are doing. The thinking part is hard, a lot of people these days don't want to think (brains its hard to exercise and thinking is exercise for brains) and fall for the convenience of letting tools or others do their thinking for them.
Having said that, I love my dive computer and all the facilities it gives me such as post dive profile analysis. I would not go without it for anything. But its a tool and when it fails we need a backup strategy - just like your pony bottle.
Paul.
I recently registered my son for his OW course and was surprised to note that no table was part of his package but it came with an RDP. I might be a dinosaur but I reiterated the fact that even though we are surrounded by technology, you still need to understand the basics in case technology fails (by itself or with your assistance).
The analogy I used was GPS vs aviation maps for tactical low flying...The GPS receiver might fail for various reason or might bring you to the wrong spot that you entered (garbage in garbage out) but being able to X-check on the map (environment permitting) might just save your bacon and is in itself priceless.
I first got certified OW in 1978 (NAUI) when the basic set-up was to wear a BC device around your neck, a wrist mounted timepiece and depth gauge, a one reg set-up with self-contained reserve (an OOA situation meant getting really really close to your buddy for buddy breathing) and a tank on a back pack.
Nowadays, I dive with the full meal deal but as long as I still have a depth gauge, time piece and tables, I can still function and enjoy diving. Some of my friends dive with fully air integrated/computer console and I have seen time when the dives had to me modified and/or even be cancelled because the lost of his console mounted computer meant he lost everything including depth (he still got it from his wrist mounted computer) but more importantly...air pressure monitoring system. That just reinforced my conviction to remain KISS and stick to basic analog system.
At 15 yrs of age, he will be by my side when he goes scuba diving. Even though my girlfriend and I are both computer equipped and he is RDP equipped, there will always be tables (Air, Nitrox) as part of our scubatravelling luggages as I have no intention of cancelling my diving (local or on vacation) due to equipement and/or battery failure.
The analogy I used was GPS vs aviation maps for tactical low flying...The GPS receiver might fail for various reason or might bring you to the wrong spot that you entered (garbage in garbage out) but being able to X-check on the map (environment permitting) might just save your bacon and is in itself priceless.
I first got certified OW in 1978 (NAUI) when the basic set-up was to wear a BC device around your neck, a wrist mounted timepiece and depth gauge, a one reg set-up with self-contained reserve (an OOA situation meant getting really really close to your buddy for buddy breathing) and a tank on a back pack.
Nowadays, I dive with the full meal deal but as long as I still have a depth gauge, time piece and tables, I can still function and enjoy diving. Some of my friends dive with fully air integrated/computer console and I have seen time when the dives had to me modified and/or even be cancelled because the lost of his console mounted computer meant he lost everything including depth (he still got it from his wrist mounted computer) but more importantly...air pressure monitoring system. That just reinforced my conviction to remain KISS and stick to basic analog system.
At 15 yrs of age, he will be by my side when he goes scuba diving. Even though my girlfriend and I are both computer equipped and he is RDP equipped, there will always be tables (Air, Nitrox) as part of our scubatravelling luggages as I have no intention of cancelling my diving (local or on vacation) due to equipement and/or battery failure.
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I admit I haven't been keeping up with all the posts but consider this: Seems the new PADI standard is for the Iistructor to teach either tables or computers, and both if he/she wishes. Suppose some in the class won't (or can't for money reasons) get a computer. If only the computer is taught what does that person do? I'm sure a good instructor will cover all these bases, but I don't think doing that is actually required.
jonathon50
Registered
you cant beat good old fashioned tables! you know where you are with them. 20 mtres NDL=45 mins, all being well! thats me diving to 35 mins, (all being well!). computers are good, but the manual that came with my vyper? NASA, you need me! ha ha. i got mine 'cos it came with the kit i bought, (all serviced i hasten to add!) i use it for 3 things. time, ascent rate, reading dives back to students for their log books.
chokdeekap
Registered
last time i looked at a table was in 1998 when i was doing AOW
As a trained commercial diver we never use computers but are taught the complete ins and outs of the us navy dive tables even being able to work them backwards in order to plan maximum times of next dive or max depth without incurring decompression time or as some questions in the must get 80% + exam have a minimum of say half and hour deco at the 20 foot stop.
Ask any hydrobaric recompression operator and they will tell you how many padi trained divers they get coming in because they relied so heavily on their computer they missed out vital factors in their dive. or they mis understood what their computer was telling them because they hadn't seen it doing that before (flashing red and screaming)
Yes i use a computer when i recreationally dive but i also know my no deco times off the top of my head for example at 60 feet its 60 minutes or 60/60 and do check my second third dives against the tables to what my computer says just to double check.
Tables should be taught more heavily and the reliance on computers broken using both together is far safer, if you don't understand the tables you shouldn't be diving without someone who really knows them with you.
Ask any hydrobaric recompression operator and they will tell you how many padi trained divers they get coming in because they relied so heavily on their computer they missed out vital factors in their dive. or they mis understood what their computer was telling them because they hadn't seen it doing that before (flashing red and screaming)
Yes i use a computer when i recreationally dive but i also know my no deco times off the top of my head for example at 60 feet its 60 minutes or 60/60 and do check my second third dives against the tables to what my computer says just to double check.
Tables should be taught more heavily and the reliance on computers broken using both together is far safer, if you don't understand the tables you shouldn't be diving without someone who really knows them with you.
Bah. Tables are the easy way out. Buy a copy of Basic Decompression Theory and Application - 3rd Edition or Reduced Gradient Bubble Model In Depth by Bruce R. Weinke and learn what's going on inside you that the tables merely hint at.
Personally, I'm quite upset about PADI removing the tables from the OW kits and replacing them with the eRDP.
Personally, I'm quite upset about PADI removing the tables from the OW kits and replacing them with the eRDP.
I teach open water for PADI, NAUI and SDI. I personally think that all students should have a basic understanding of what is going on with on gassing and the time it takes to off gas. Tables give them a real visual for that. If PADI should get rid of anything it's the Wheel. I hate that thing. I was required to learn it and own it for the IDC but seriously... it's just a money making piece of plactic that gives way too much room for error. But it makes them money and I am sure there are a few people out there that use it. As for SDI... No tables, just computers? I see the point, divers today ARE NOT going to use tables. They ARE going to use computers. But getting rid of them all together I think is not the right way to do it. Let's face it... SCUBA training is getting more like fast food. In today, certified tomorrow. It took me 4 weeks to get certified about 20 years ago. 6 classroom sessions, 2 confined water days and 2 open water days. I agree that the training today get's most of that across in a shorter period of time but I do not think any further "cuts" need to be made. On another note... I actuall know an instructor that said to me "I don't even know why the instructor has to be in the water". It is this attitude of people cutting corners and breaking standards that I cannot stand!!! I know this thread is a LONG one but hopefully my words will not fall on deaf ears. Keep the tables, teach the students and have fun.
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