PADI vs NAUI

[The Chairman]

Ok, since you use a PC, I'll call you semi-evolved! BTW, I knew you would take exception to the use of "evolved" which is why I put the smiley in there. It was definitely a tongue in cheek comment.

I choose to teach diving in the same way that I've always done.

I could never teach the same way I taught even two or three years ago much less ten. I am inclined to innovate the process and it's had some great and unexpected results. I couldn't or wouldn't do it any other way because that's how I pursue excellence. Unfortunately, it's often hard for us to understand or better yet, realize that we pursue excellence in different ways. It's my opinion that you and I have had a mutual epiphany in that regard in this very thread. That's progress and I think that I can actually better appreciate how you approach your teaching because of it and hopefully the converse is true. I don't see your method as superior or inferior to mine: it's just different. While it works well for you, I can tell it would not work at all for me. BTW, whenever I explain how I teach, I warn my students that it's certainly a unique approach with very few who teach this way. Why? I have them establish trim and neutral buoyancy first before I go on to the more traditional skills which is opposite of just about every instructor I have seen. These are by far the hardest skills to master so I want them to work on them early and constantly. Once they have that and are comfortable, all the other skills are a piece of cake. There are a lot of other differences, but that's the most obvious by far.

I've talked about the attitude that states "If I don't teach it, sell it or dive then it must be crap!" here before and even in this thread. I wish I could say that I don't have any of this attitude within me, but I suspect that we all are guilty to some degree. I've really made an effort to open up my mind to embrace the concept that it's all good. I've been quite successful when it comes to gear and somewhat successful when it comes to how we teach. I still have the inclination to tie a sculler's hands together when I see them on a dive and seeing someone laying or standing on a reef really makes me mad. But I do want to be as inclusive as I can be in regards to how others dive as long as they are not hurting themselves, their buddies or the environment. It's a big ocean and I'm sure there's a place in it for all of us.

 

[DCBC]

Ok, since you use a PC, I'll call you semi-evolved! BTW, I knew you would take exception to the use of "evolved" which is why I put the smiley in there. It was definitely a tongue in cheek comment.

I thought that this was the case, but I just couldn't let it go...

It's my opinion that you and I have had a mutual epiphany in that regard in this very thread. That's progress and I think that I can actually better appreciate how you approach your teaching because of it and hopefully the converse is true. I don't see your method as superior or inferior to mine: it's just different.

Yes, I feel the same way.

I have them establish trim and neutral buoyancy first before I go on to the more traditional skills which is opposite of just about every instructor I have seen.

Yes. I've had a buoyancy focus since the inflation hose became available on the horse-collar.

It's a big ocean and I'm sure there's a place in it for all of us.

Yes (it seems of late that I've been agreeing with you a whole lot, doesn't it?) There often is an assumption that the conditions one Instructor teaches in is similar to another. Although the ocean(s) are large, they are diverse. It's reasonable that the ways Instructors approach teaching are equally so.

 

[iluvtheocean]

One thing i detest about the PADI manuals is any quiz questions or practice problems have the answers right on the page or the next page instead of in the back where they should be.

 

[boulderjohn]

One thing i detest about the PADI manuals is any quiz questions or practice problems have the answers right on the page or the next page instead of in the back where they should be.

Interesting reason to detest an agency.

BTW, curriculum designers agree that in practice exercises, immediate feedback is best. Having to flip to the back of the book may be only a minor inconvenience in that regard, but it is not as good as having the material more readily available. In trying to maintain coherent instruction, the fewer the interruptions like that the better. Interestingly enough, that is the main reason organizations that define the process for documenting sources in scholarly articles have pretty much gone to inline documentation. Even the act of looking to the bottom of the page for a footnote is considered to be an unwelcome and unnecessary interruption of the train of thought.

Why do you think having to flip to the back of the book is superior?

 

[chrpai]

Why do you think having to flip to the back of the book is superior?

A physical book? Talk about missing the boat...

 

[iluvtheocean]

it is in practice a textbook. take any school textbook with quizzes in it and normally the answers are in the back if they are included in the book at all.
this has nothing to do with documenting sources, a scholarly article is not a textbook/manual -- this is referring to quizzes/tests of your knowledge and comprehension of what you have just finished reading. putting the answer key on the same page defeats the purpose of such a quiz.
if you are teaching, you do not give a child a test & the answer key at the same time and then expect them to actually read the quiz and try to answer them using what you've taught them instead of just taking the answer key that you just gave them and writing down those answers. i would rather them try and fail a question and then understand why they got it wrong.

and yes i actually do have some experience - i did substitute teaching and my wife has been teaching for 13 years.

and i said nothing about detesting PADI, just with where the answers to the quizzes are a located.


and me? i like a physical book for learning especially if you've got access to a living breathing instructor to ask questions of.

 

[boulderjohn]

it is in practice a textbook. take any school textbook with quizzes in it and normally the answers are in the back if they are included in the book at all.
this has nothing to do with documenting sources, a scholarly article is not a textbook/manual -- this is referring to quizzes/tests of your knowledge and comprehension of what you have just finished reading. putting the answer key on the same page defeats the purpose of such a quiz.
if you are teaching, you do not give a child a test & the answer key at the same time and then expect them to actually read the quiz and try to answer them using what you've taught them instead of just taking the answer key that you just gave them and writing down those answers. i would rather them try and fail a question and then understand why they got it wrong.

and yes i actually do have some experience - i did substitute teaching and my wife has been teaching for 13 years.

and i said nothing about detesting PADI, just with where the answers to the quizzes are a located.

I'm sure that in your role as a substitute teacher you learned a lot about educational theory. You are also right that in many (but by no means all) textbooks answers to practice quizzes are at the back of the book. That is how it used to be done pretty consistently, in fact.

In my role as curriculum director in charge of curriculum design, I had to learn a lot about the theory of such things, and I assure you the placement of the answers to the check quizzes in the PADI materials is consistent with current thinking on the instructional process. Although textbooks and scholarly articles are different, the reason for the change from old thinking to new thinking in this regard is precisely the same. You may disagree, but is it really something to detest?

As a career educator and current editor of an online education journal, I am actually quite impressed by the design of most of the PADI materials. In my discussions with the people in charge of the instructional processes at PADI, I learned that they are very conversant in the latest concepts of instructional theory. The fact that something is not being done the way it was in past decades does not make it wrong. That goes for pretty much everything in this thread.

 

[iluvtheocean]

I'm sure that in your role as a substitute teacher you learned a lot about educational theory. You are also right that in many (but by no means all) textbooks answers to practice quizzes are at the back of the book. That is how it used to be done pretty consistently, in fact.

In my role as curriculum director in charge of curriculum design, I had to learn a lot about the theory of such things, and I assure you the placement of the answers to the check quizzes in the PADI materials is consistent with current thinking on the instructional process. Although textbooks and scholarly articles are different, the reason for the change from old thinking to new thinking in this regard is precisely the same. You may disagree, but is it really something to detest?

As a career educator and current editor of an online education journal, I am actually quite impressed by the design of most of the PADI materials. In my discussions with the people in charge of the instructional processes at PADI, I learned that they are very conversant in the latest concepts of instructional theory. The fact that something is not being done the way it was in past decades does not make it wrong. That goes for pretty much everything in this thread.

i agree that most of the materials for PADI are laid out in a thoughtful, methodical manner. and even though i do not agree with the answer placements, no it does not make it wrong. everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've stated my reasons why i would prefer them in a different location. I do not expect PADI to change it and i will continue to take PADI courses thru my local shop. A good instructor is what makes the course and they actually have several that make the grade so to speak. the layout of the manual doesn't affect the quality of the instruction you receive - it's just the self-study part and as long as the individual taking the course ends up understanding the material to a reasonable degree and it makes them a better diver I would say that is what truly matters. By a reasonable degree i mean that i would hold an adult to a higher standard than a child taking the same course but that's just me

 

[The Chairman]

A good instructor is what makes the course

This really seems to be the recurring theme in this thread.

• Instructors choose the agency(ies) they are comfortable with.
• Shops choose the instructors they are comfortable with.
• Students should make sure that the shop/instructor they choose teaches in a manner that they will be comfortable with.

 

[chrpai]

• Instructors choose the agency(ies) they are comfortable with.
• Shops choose the instructors they are comfortable with.
• Students should make sure that the shop/instructor they choose teaches in a manner that they will be comfortable with.

Me thinks that shops choose the agency that think can make them the most money and instructors then choose the agency that is offered by the shop. Shops then choose the instructors that will take the lowest pay. Occasionally an instructor will go independent and then choose the agency they are the most comfortable with and go find the students on their own.

Personally I want an instructor that's not affiliated with a shop. I don't want the conflict of interest.