Primary Long Hose Length: 5' or 7'?

[Doppler]

See like I said, re stowing is the issue...

And as Dan and I and several others keep saying, restowing the hose is NOT an issue if you know what you are doing which is a function of being shown how and practice... which I believe is called training/education.

A "seven-foot" hose may not be the right tool for the job as originally described by the OP but the reason for NOT using one should never be difficulty restowing it. AND this is NOT a DIR thing, a GUE thing or a general North Florida Cave Diving thing... it's simple common-sense. There are many of us who have been using and teaching folks the functional benefits of a long hose prior to it being erroneously/misleadingly (?) labelled as ANYTHING other than good practice.

HOWEVER, I AM 100 percent in agreement that OOA drills as taught and practiced in most sport and tech classes are bull****... but perhaps that's a topic for another thread entirely. (Does NOT mean a long hose is not useful though!)

 

[boulderjohn]

I think this depends upon how "slick" you want your gear configuration .... I see nothing wrong with the custom length....the only issues I see are that if you don't route the hose under a pocket or can light or knife, and just have the hose hanging....then in some positions the hose moves too much

I use a 7 foot hose exclusively these days, and I usually have no problem with it. The exception is the times I use it with a single tank in a shallow water, well-lighted environment when I don't carry a canister light. Usually I just tuck it under the harness on the right side, and 90% of the time it is just fine there. Sometimes, though, it comes untucked and floats around. On those occasions I wish I had put something there to hook it around. It is just a minor annoyance, though--nothing to be concerned about.

I fully agree that stowing it is not an issue whatsoever. It takes a couple of seconds, and you barely have to pay attention to what you are doing while you are doing it.

 

[beanojones]

I'm liking this logic. Putting aside for a moment the either-or nature of my initial question, is there a reason not to go with a mid-length (~6', say) primary hose long enough to wear comfortably looped around the back of the neck, but not so long as to require routing under a can light etc. or stowing of excess hose under a waist strap?

That's usage is what the 5 foot is for. When people are saying the 5 footer is tto short they are talking about tucking it under a can or a light.

The 5' works with an underarm pass and then a neck loop on a broad range of people- tiny Japanese people to 6' 300 pounders, if use with a 45 or 70 swivel. I assume it might work with a 90 swivel, since the other thread has someone using a 90 with it, but I find 90 don't work with neck loops with certain smaller second stages so I stick with the 70/120 swivel.

a 5' hose does not work well tucked under anything. I have seen some people try an use it tucked or looped but it was tight.

---------- Post added July 27th, 2013 at 09:48 AM ----------

And as Dan and I and several others keep saying, restowing the hose is NOT an issue if you know what you are doing which is a function of being shown how and practice... which I believe is called training/education.

Or if you have time and space to get it done. If you don't have the time and space to do it, then you don't.

If you have never run into an issue with it, then you have not. But people dive different conditions, and there are times when the long hose has to be left under the arm while others things are getting dealt with. And then a 7' is just stupid. As is, for that matter any long hose of any length, without a 45/70/90 swivel. (But again DIR says better to hamstring the usefulness of the long hose by not using a swivel, so they get to be stupid in their own special way.)

There are also conditions in which that tuck in the belt loop of the 7' is just a silly need to keep a 7' when the tool to use is a 5', and having to deal with it coming untucked is either annoying, or hazardous and foolish depending on what hit what when.

Watching someone hang themselves up on stuff when they are diving the wrong gear for what they are doing is watching them DIW.

If training actually covered real conditions, then more people would be aware of what is good about a 5' and what is good about a 7', and training would have something to do with the ability to deal with the hoses in real conditions. But training rarely covers real conditions, a fact which you acknowledge.

 

[Lorenzoid]

That's usage is what the 5 foot is for. When people are saying the 5 footer is tto short they are talking about tucking it under a can or a light..
. . .

Not true for me. As I said in an earlier post, in adopting a long-hose configuration I initially went with a 5' hose, thinking I would just route it under my arm and avoid the "tucking the excess" problem. But I felt it wound too tightly around my head and as a result of the tight bends in the hose tended to torque itself away from my mouth, as well rubbed against my backup regulator necklace. My GUE instructor agreed that 6' would be better for me if I insist on using a hose shorter than 7'. (The assumption is that a 7' hose must be tucked under a can light, pocket, waist belt, etc.) unless you are a giant. So this point, I have swapped out the 5' hose for a 7' hose and will tuck the excess under a pocket or waist belt, just as most people seem to do.

The idea of a 5' hose that didn't need tucking made sense to me, but it was just ever so slightly too short. I think a 5' hose only works well on people who are slight in stature/build. If you are tall or have a broad chest/shoulders, 6' leaves you some room and still allows you to simply route the hose under your arm without any excess to tuck under something. But in the end, I figured that if 6' is the minimum I need, then I might as well just get the near-standard 7' and learn to tuck the damn excess under something like many others before me have managed to learn.

 

[beanojones]

Not true for me. As I said in an earlier post, in adopting a long-hose configuration I initially went with a 5' hose, thinking I would just route it under my arm and avoid the "tucking the excess" problem. But I felt it wound too tightly around my head and as a result of the tight bends in the hose tended to torque itself away from my mouth, as well rubbed against my backup regulator necklace. My GUE instructor agreed that 6' would be better for me if I insist on using a hose shorter than 7'. (The assumption is that a 7' hose must be tucked under a can light, pocket, waist belt, etc.) unless you are a giant. So this point, I have swapped out the 5' hose for a 7' hose and will tuck the excess under a pocket or waist belt, just as most people seem to do.

The idea of a 5' hose that didn't need tucking made sense to me, but it was just ever so slightly too short. I think a 5' hose only works well on people who are slight in stature/build. If you are tall or have a broad chest/shoulders, 6' leaves you some room and still allows you to simply route the hose under your arm without any excess to tuck under something.

\

That might also have to do with no swivel on the end of the hose.

I have never used a long hose without a swivel, so me putting the five foot hose with the swivel on various people might be dominated by the drape working better with a swivel.

A swivel makes the hose effectively longer in actual OOA situations since it removes the loop in front of of the OOA diver. It's not as obvious on long hoses, but when you compare someone on a 7 footer without a swivel to someone on a 7 footer with a swivel you can see how much freer the swivel having hose leaves the person receiving the long hose.

(Same is true for any hose length, both in terms of the drape on the wrap, and the function of the deployed long hose)

However the tighter drape might indeed make the neck wrap interfere with the necklace. I never really noticed it but I usually have the necklace pretty tight.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

This is my take on "long hose" length. I use a 7'hose on doubles and singles. I tried a 5' and I did not like it, it felt like it was pulling at my mouth unless I made a conscious effort to really tuck the hose up under my right arm and make sure it was tight coming around the back of my neck. I would also find I would have to readjust the hose several times throughout the dive so it did not pull. While using the 7' once I don the equipment I don't even notice it throughout the dive. I do have to use a 70/ 120 degree swivel even with a 7' foot hose so the reg does not pull on my mouth. I'm around 5'8" so a 5' foot should work for me but I just can't get it to work to my liking.

 

[boulderjohn]

Or if you have time and space to get it done. If you don't have the time and space to do it, then you don't.

If you have never run into an issue with it, then you have not. But people dive different conditions, and there are times when the long hose has to be left under the arm while others things are getting dealt with. And then a 7' is just stupid. As is, for that matter any long hose of any length, without a 45/70/90 swivel. (But again DIR says better to hamstring the usefulness of the long hose by not using a swivel, so they get to be stupid in their own special way.)

There are also conditions in which that tuck in the belt loop of the 7' is just a silly need to keep a 7' when the tool to use is a 5', and having to deal with it coming untucked is either annoying, or hazardous and foolish depending on what hit what when.

I am trying to imagine such a situation. Perhaps you could give details.

In my early technical training, my instructor would put all of us in some pretty unusual circumstances in which we would suddenly have to share air with our 7 foot hoses. I cannot remember in instance in which it was a problem.

In my cave training, I was frequently put into situations in which I had to share air unexpectedly in very cramped quarters. I don't remember a single instance in which that was a problem.

please give a description of such a situation.

 

[rivers]

I'm not understanding the difficulty in re-stowing a 7ft hose vs a 5ft hose. I am able to re-stow my 7ft just as quickly as I was able to re-stow my 5ft, whether I have my can light or not. I'm able to do it when the water is 2*C and I've all but lost feeling in my hands it's so cold. Re-stowing is a non-issue.
So are air shares. I've done it (as both donor and receiver) from 20m+. Some were standard s-drills. some were 'surprise s-drills' (no idea that my buddy was going to throw an s-drill into the dive). All were on a 7ft hose. I also had half a dive in 3m done on someone's long hose (7 ft, no swivel) at a local lake because it was much easier to dive around the lake then surface swim. I think it took us around 40 minutes.
If you want to use a swivel, go ahead. But it's not needed. If you're having issues re-stowing a long hose, maybe you need to take a good look at why it's happening.

 

[danvolker]

\

That might also have to do with no swivel on the end of the hose.

I have never used a long hose without a swivel, so me putting the five foot hose with the swivel on various people might be dominated by the drape working better with a swivel.

A swivel makes the hose effectively longer in actual OOA situations since it removes the loop in front of of the OOA diver. It's not as obvious on long hoses, but when you compare someone on a 7 footer without a swivel to someone on a 7 footer with a swivel you can see how much freer the swivel having hose leaves the person receiving the long hose.

(Same is true for any hose length, both in terms of the drape on the wrap, and the function of the deployed long hose)

However the tighter drape might indeed make the neck wrap interfere with the necklace. I never really noticed it but I usually have the necklace pretty tight.

BJ, Is that a Single Stroke Swivel, or a Double Stroke Swivel ?

 

[beanojones]

This is my take on "long hose" length. I use a 7'hose on doubles and singles. I tried a 5' and I did not like it, it felt like it was pulling at my mouth unless I made a conscious effort to really tuck the hose up under my right arm and make sure it was tight coming around the back of my neck. I would also find I would have to readjust the hose several times throughout the dive so it did not pull. While using the 7' once I don the equipment I don't even notice it throughout the dive. I do have to use a 70/ 120 degree swivel even with a 7' foot hose so the reg does not pull on my mouth. I'm around 5'8" so a 5' foot should work for me but I just can't get it to work to my liking.

What's the difference in routing between the two when in place?

Do you tuck the 7' or hook it?

Was the 5' just running loose under the arm?