pros and cons of hydro test not at LDS?

[2airishuman]

The "generic" stickers are not worth a damn from a regulatory/legal perspective. But given that you have had no issues...no questions...no fill refusals... just shows how screwed up the dive industry is when it comes to a cylinder inspection and their ability "self regulate."

I used to use generic stickers, then I got custom stickers with my name and address, and now I just print "VIP 08/2019" with a label machine. I always get my air at the same place, they know me, they know how I inspect my cylinders.

A generic sticker says that someone pulled the valve and looked inside, which was the whole point of the VIP originally. Some sort of inspection. I don't try to fool people. They can give me a fill, or not, and if they have questions about who did the inspection and any qualifications that person may have had, I answer truthfully.

 

[broncobowsher]

Local dive shop knows the tanks that need special care during testing. They label the tanks such when they take them in. Failed hydros are rare. That is one benefit of going through a dive shop. The owner has to drive past the hydro shop so not a big deal. But there is a discussion on how fast I need the tank turned around. They do have loaners if I need one while waiting on the hydro. The bigger deal is the batch pricing he gets. It costs him more to run a single tank, gets a price break if he brings in several at a time. It's how the hydro shop runs things. The shop makes a few dollars for the transport, they get better bulk pricing, doesn't really cost me any more. Been a long time since I paid for just a hydro (usually I am buying a mixed bag of stuff). I want to say the hydro from the shop sells for $35? Fill/VIP another $15. Valve gets an inspection but not a rebuild. O-ring is condition dependent. The DGX replacement makes a lot of sense. I have managed to convert most of my tanks to DIN valves now, still have a few to go.

 

[W W Meixner]

The "generic" stickers are not worth a damn from a regulatory/legal perspective. But given that you have had no issues...no questions...no fill refusals... just shows how screwed up the dive industry is when it comes to a cylinder inspection and their ability "self regulate."

SS...

I'm curious to understand your logic...

a VIP sticker which is branded with a shop name is no guarantee that the cylinder is serviced any better than a cylinder with a VIP sticker that is not branded...

And...from what I'm reading is proof positive...especially when it comes to dis-assembly/inspection/cleaning/drying...and correct re-assembly for oxygen service...

It's also evident when uncertified shop techs are performing the work ''under'' the certification of the shop owner...or senior shop associate who is certified...if any...and you can be sure in a ''self regulated industry'' as you put it that there is a lot of that going on...the hardest most labour intensive job in any dive shop is servicing cylinders...this is where most ''junior'' shop associates start...none of them are certified to perform the work...

Show me a service tech who can ''visually'' certify that a cylinder is 100% O2 service clean...and I'll show you a service tech who is lying to him/her self...lying to everyone he/she is dealing with...or is not from this world...and as far as a black light test...put the black light where the sun don't shine...

Proper cylinder service has nothing to do with the VIP sticker...but everything to do with the qualified/certified tech performing all the cylinder service protocols correctly...all the information could be recorded on a piece of masking tape...a VIP sticker just makes it look professional...

The certification/verification of the cylinder is in the work...not the sticker...

W...

 

[Scared Silly]

SS...

I'm curious to understand your logic...

a VIP sticker which is branded with a shop name is no guarantee that the cylinder is serviced any better than a cylinder with a VIP sticker that is not branded...

And...from what I'm reading is proof positive...especially when it comes to dis-assembly/inspection/cleaning/drying...and correct re-assembly for oxygen service...

It's also evident when uncertified shop techs are performing the work ''under'' the certification of the shop owner...or senior shop associate who is certified...if any...and you can be sure in a ''self regulated industry'' as you put it that there is a lot of that going on...the hardest most labour intensive job in any dive shop is servicing cylinders...this is where most ''junior'' shop associates start...none of them are certified to perform the work...

Show me a service tech who can ''visually'' certify that a cylinder is 100% O2 service clean...and I'll show you a service tech who is lying to him/her self...lying to everyone he/she is dealing with...or is not from this world...and as far as a black light test...put the black light where the sun don't shine...

Proper cylinder service has nothing to do with the VIP sticker...but everything to do with the qualified/certified tech performing all the cylinder service protocols correctly...all the information could be recorded on a piece of masking tape...a VIP sticker just makes it look professional...

The certification/verification of the cylinder is in the work...not the sticker...

W...

You are correct a shop sticker does not mean anything more than a generic sticker. And the inspection is completely dependent on the inspector. As such, let me rephrase that:

The vast majority of VIP stickers are not worth a damn from a regulatory/legal perspective. But given that you have had no issues...no questions...no fill refusals... just shows how screwed up the dive industry is when it comes to a cylinder inspection and their ability "self regulate."

IMHO a descent inspector should put a sticker on it that is reflective of their skills. You could have done the most meticulous inspection possible but slap a crap sticker on it means the inspection could have been done by Kilroy the klutz.

Here is the typical BS on VIP stickers:

This "certificate" is valid for one year. First it is not a certificate, it is evidence of inspection. The inspection is not good for a year, it is date the cylinder was inspected.

What are the standards set by the SCUBA Diving Industry? There are none cause there is no scuba industry body. And this whole bit about "premix" is just made up goobly-gook that does not follow any standard for cylinders.

I have seen the above and more on both generic and shop stickers. Which tells me who ever is doing the inspections really does not know what they are doing.

Of course having a proper sticker, does not guarantee anything either but at least with those one can at least start off on thinking positively.

 

[Johnoly]

.... The DGX replacement makes a lot of sense....

I fully agree....I completely tear down, clean and rebuild my own Thermo valves so it's free labor. But I've been using {evaluating} the DGX valves for 2 years now. Even with me doing all the work, I can't beat the price/value/quality of the DGX valves. It's very similar to the 6cuft AL pony I use every dive. It makes more economic sense to THROW IT IN THE TRASH after 5 yrs then to do hydro/VIP/valve service, so that's exactly what I do.

 

[W W Meixner]

You are correct a shop sticker does not mean anything more than a generic sticker. And the inspection is completely dependent on the inspector. As such, let me rephrase that:

The vast majority of VIP stickers are not worth a damn from a regulatory/legal perspective. But given that you have had no issues...no questions...no fill refusals... just shows how screwed up the dive industry is when it comes to a cylinder inspection and their ability "self regulate."

IMHO a descent inspector should put a sticker on it that is reflective of their skills. You could have done the most meticulous inspection possible but slap a crap sticker on it means the inspection could have been done by Kilroy the klutz.

Here is the typical BS on VIP stickers:

This "certificate" is valid for one year. First it is not a certificate, it is evidence of inspection. The inspection is not good for a year, it is date the cylinder was inspected.

What are the standards set by the SCUBA Diving Industry? There are none cause there is no scuba industry body. And this whole bit about "premix" is just made up goobly-gook that does not follow any standard for cylinders.

I have seen the above and more on both generic and shop stickers. Which tells me who ever is doing the inspections really does not know what they are doing.

Of course having a proper sticker, does not guarantee anything either but at least with those one can at least start off on thinking positively.

SS...

Please provide a ''decent'' inspector's sticker sample...being mindful of the fact...that the stickers purpose is only to identify that annual inspection protocols are current...and cylinder is filled with breathing gases in line with inspection preparation of the cylinder...

As far as standards that you feel do not exist...there are lots of standards as established by the various certification agencies in their respective training documents...and through instructors and instructor trainers certified to instruct by the certification agencies...

Looking forward to seeing your ideal VIP sticker...

W...

 

[JackD342]

The key language on PSI/PCI labels, aside from inspector number, dates, and other informational punch-outs:
"Visually Inspected to PSI-PCI, OSHA, and CGA Standards."

Then either "Suitable for Air Service" (red sticker)
or "Suitable for Enriched Air Service" (green sticker)

During PSI/PCI training, Mark loves to pick on troublesome language on some other stickers, such as "certified" or "expires."

 

[Scared Silly]

Please provide a ''decent'' inspector's sticker sample...

You already did ... the TDI/SDI as well as the PSI/PCI.

As far as standards that you feel do not exist...there are lots of standards as established by the various certification agencies in their respective training documents...and through instructors and instructor trainers certified to instruct by the certification agencies...

I did not say that, I was specifically picking on the language on the "generic" sticker. There is no scuba industry standard. As you note there are standards set by certification agencies (the only two I know about in the states are TDI/SDI and PSI/PCI). But that does not make them a scuba industry standard.

 

[W W Meixner]

SS...

I'm pretty sure it does...at least here in North America...and if every one who services cylinders in North America is instructed/certified by...and follows the protocols established by these two agencies...with no deviations...we're in pretty good hands...

It will keep the end users safe...and most importantly the fill station operators safe...who are also required to be certified to be able to operate the fill equipment safely and able to identify cylinder condition/stamped information/manufacturer hazard warning labels...as well as information contained on an annual VIP sticker...

As well as the above...the fill station operator is required to be instructed/certified to be able to perform accurate and safe gas blending protocols...if so required...

Any shop who is known to be cutting corners for what ever reason...should be reported to the agenices they represent...and have their certifications revoked...

There are lots of North American Scuba Industry standards...lots of training instuction requirements...lots of certifications...

W...

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

If a shop puts their sticker on a tank with their name on it, they know the tank was inspected to their standards, whatever that may be. They’re also familiar with stickers from all the local shops. So there’s some level of trust there.

If some dude walks in with a generic sticker he bought off the Internet, they have no idea what’s happening with that tank. Is it really O2 clean, or is the guy just trying to save money? Did it fail VIP somewhere?