PSA for those doing vacation Guided Boat Dives

[divermike1011]

Dive one: 30M dive to a well traveled wreck. ABT 32 minutes(multi-level). Dive two: 10-12M dive ABT 52 minutes. All data is approximate as I do not have my dive computer or log book sitting in front of me.

Ana:

I'm not sure why you think it's difficult or important to know the particulars of the dives in this case. I'm happy to provide them, my original point of the post was to encourage people not to blow off their dive guides when it comes to underwater signals, hence why I did not include much data, in fact I only added in the ABT for the second dive because I was reading between the lines on your first or second post that they may have felt they were getting "ripped off" as far as their dive time.

I think you are doing your dive partners (insta-buddies) a service by letting them know ahead of time you don't buddy dive. I am of the opinion that diving is an activity people are welcome to pursue solo, and if a dive boat or dive operation is okay with you going off on your own during a boat/guided dive that is a decision between you and them -- and I honestly hope you can find operations that give their divers that much freedom. Out here on Oahu most dives are group dives and it is rare to be allowed to dive your own profile. I am against this practice and had I not gotten a heads up about these two particular muppets and then watched them struggle on the first dive I wouldn't have insisted on them staying close. I think safer divers are those who can plan and execute their own dives. Most operations out here are a little gun shy as most of our clients are once a decade vacation divers whose egos write checks their skills can't cash.

One particular incident that happened a week ago (not to me thank the gods) illustrates this: a diver who was low on air decided to head to the surface by ditching all of his gear at 70 feet and swimming like hell for the surface. Luckily he was uninjured, but his dive guide was a mess -- the DG couldn't get to him in time. While something this extreme is rare the fact is most dive pros out here see more stupid then smart and since we're in the entertainment business it's a constantly moving grey line about how much lee-way to give people. This also means that most dive boats out here insist on group dives and forbid solo diving off their boats.

As far as dealing with the general public, if I didn't mostly love it I wouldn't do it. I love to teach people how to dive, help them become better divers, and show off our endemic species.

I know this is long winded, but I'm still puzzled by your dismissal of common safe diving practices when diving in buddy teams /groups, and why you'd instantly feel that customers who get told to surface are being ripped off.

If you'd like to I'd love to know your answers to those questions.

Michael

 

[TMHeimer]

[QUOTE

To all divers out there, when your guide tells you to go up, don't give him/her attitude, just go up, your guide may know something you don't.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the bottom line. I've been on ONE group dive guide (DM) led charter. I agree with Devon Diver that the buddy system is best. We were buddied up, in 10 ft. viz, following the DM and others in front of us. But some idiot decided to zig zag all over the place, and we were following him. This screwed up the DM as to who to retrieve. He decided to lets us go, as I was almost a DM and my 17 year-old buddy was very good. No need for that.

 

[vladimir]

I think you are doing your dive partners (insta-buddies) a service by letting them know ahead of time you don't buddy dive. I am of the opinion that diving is an activity people are welcome to pursue solo, and if a dive boat or dive operation is okay with you going off on your own during a boat/guided dive that is a decision between you and them -- and I honestly hope you can find operations that give their divers that much freedom. Out here on Oahu most dives are group dives and it is rare to be allowed to dive your own profile.

Very few dive operators will explicitly allow solo diving. Many will allow it once they have a comfort level with you--often a few days into your short vacation. I understand that, and I am happy to buddy up to assuage their concerns. Group diving, however, especially in the absence of significant current, is an abomination. I'd almost prefer to lie in a hammock than follow a control-freak divemaster* around like a dog on a leash. I wish dive operators would be more upfront about the type of diving they conduct and allow, but there are usually pretty good clues, beginning with: PADI 5-star dive center, which seems to signal an operator geared towards the casual diver. Anyway, if I were diving with you and you told me to ascend, I'd ascend--but I probably wouldn't be diving with you. Almost certainly not after a dive like you described.

*not necessarily describing the OP

 

[divermike1011]

Vladimir: Valid points. I don't especially like group dives, but sometimes it's a reality in the casual / vacation diver PADI dominated market where I live, and I suspect at most other vacation destinations. If I were to go somewhere else to dive I'd do a discover local diving experience, talk to people who have more experience in that locale that I do and then if I deemed it safe to do so I'd dive solo or with a buddy I brought, from shore if necessary. Having now worked for a few months in a busy vacation dive area I "get it" as to why most instructors are paranoid control freaks -- people do dumb **** and we're responsible for them. It's a ****ty reality of this market.

Michael

 

[Frosty]

Divermike - I get your point -as far as you were concerned you lead they follow end of story.
Their version though I suspect is quite a bit different.-something like-I've dived a week with this crowd and all the dives so far have left us buddied up to call our own dives as buddies.-whats this guy doing thumbing our dive when our team is fine?
Sorry I can kinda see both sides of the story yasee.
I really don't know what the right answer is and with so little expereinece I'm no way saying they wrre right or wrong.

 

[Garrobo]

If I were the DM there wouldn't have been a second dive for these two jerks unless the captain let them go alone.

 

[fnfalman]

Have divers, even those that hired for guide/DM service, sign waivers of liability. If they want to do things on their own, then let them.

 

[vladimir]

Have divers, even those that hired for guide/DM service, sign waivers of liability. If they want to do things on their own, then let them.

I don't recall a dive operator who hasn't made me sign a waiver. Maybe some day-diving in Papua New Guinea--as far as you can get from a negligence suit. But a divemaster might incur responsibility that wouldn't exist otherwise--ethically and legally--by starting the dive with the divers.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

+1 on avoiding group dives. Its hard enough working with one insta-buddy, I can't imaging riding herd on a group. At least as an layperson I can tell the errant diver to take a hike after the 1st dive.

 

[mathauck0814]

Mike - are divers in your area/resort required to dive with a guide? I can see this being hugely frustrating (as someone who doesn't do guided dives and wouldn't travel to an area that required it). You can say, "address it at the surface" all you want but what you're really saying is, "do what I say and I'll take your verbal thrashings on the way back to shore". Once everyone is at the surface their dive was over and there wasn't anything to be done except letting them vent - what would they say that would allow them to get back in the water for the 15-20 minutes they didn't get? Ultimately they were the customer. How do you think they felt about the service they paid for after their experience?