PSAI Narcosis Management course - 73m on air

[Kevrumbo]

To be fair, a lot of the no Deep Air group on this Board do perform many Cave Dives -some with relatively complex navigation- which demands having a clear head at all times especially in emergency egress situations. . . Y'all gotta respect and understand the motivation behind their dogmas. . .

 

[Peter Guy]

I have to laugh that this thread is still going on.

As one of the people who did do some deep air diving "back in the day" I'm pretty much agnostic. HOWEVER, can everyone agree on the following (or at least some of the following):

a. Recreational diving, in general, is a pretty benign activity;

b. The deeper one dives, the less benign recreational diving becomes;

c. Entering into an overhead (real or virtual) also makes recreational diving less benign;

d. Adding He to the gas mix reduces narcosis;

e. Reducing narcosis makes recreational diving more benign; and

f. How benign one wants a dive to be is up to the diver.

 

[mathauck0814]

It's probably much simpler than it's being made out to be. The founder of PSA (later PSAI), Hal Watts, was a bit of a name in the deep air diving world and so there is a course in his agency that is developed to highlight some of the things that he found useful in pursuing those endeavors. The narcosis management course is more like a hallmark that sets PSAI apart from other agencies (as most of the alphabet soup out there are teaching largely compatible things). It's just a unique course offering. I know a few PSAI instructors and most do not teach the course, but will talk about it. It's up to the instructor to teach it, and it's up to the student to take it. If you're not interested in either, I don't believe there's any forcing factor to require it to be either taught or taken.

 

[boulderjohn]

It's probably much simpler than it's being made out to be. The founder of PSA (later PSAI), Hal Watts, was a bit of a name in the deep air diving world and so there is a course in his agency that is developed to highlight some of the things that he found useful in pursuing those endeavors. The narcosis management course is more like a hallmark that sets PSAI apart from other agencies (as most of the alphabet soup out there are teaching largely compatible things). It's just a unique course offering. I know a few PSAI instructors and most do not teach the course, but will talk about it. It's up to the instructor to teach it, and it's up to the student to take it. If you're not interested in either, I don't believe there's any forcing factor to require it to be either taught or taken.

TDI has a similar course called Extended Range. The material for it is found in the same manual as the normoxic trimix course, but divers are not required to take it. In a discussion on this topic a year or so ago, TDI representatives said that few people take it these days.

 

[mathauck0814]

TDI has a similar course called Extended Range. The material for it is found in the same manual as the normoxic trimix course, but divers are not required to take it. In a discussion on this topic a year or so ago, TDI representatives said that few people take it these days.

TDI's extended range is more aligned with PSAI's extended range nitrox class. The depth profiles for the two align and the focus on bottle handling/gas switching/dive planning are very similar. The NM is deeper and focuses less on the skills portion than the ER courses do as I believe it's generally assumed you come with those skills rather than learning them in the course.

http://www.psai.com/psai-course/psai-technical-extended-program/337-psai-extended-range-nitrox.html

http://www.psai.com/psai-course/psai-technical-extended-program/339-psai-narcosis-management.html

 

[AfterDark]

Ya’ll can stop checking the A&I forum, dives # 1940 and #1941went very well…from what I remember J
The sub has really deteriorated since 1986. No surprise but it is notable. We didn’t take the tour down the blast hole, thruthe bulkhead hatch and out the aft hole. I think that would have taken more time than the NDL would allow, wellfrom me anyway, I just plod along tryingto find some water movement to do the work for me. I saw the usual cods, bait fish, andtogs. I found a small cod camping out inthe mine release tube, I think that’swhat it is anyway, that fish swam out sofast had I not ducked it would have knocked my mask off. The old reflexes are still good!
Dive #1940 max depth 120fsw 12 minutes BT total dive time 25minutes on 21% bottom temp 53F surface temp 68F visibility 10-15’ max. No current
Dive #1841 max depth 120fsw 10 min BT, same……..has #1940

 

[usmarinekurt]

After dark
sat were going back to the volund if interested
or the Larchmont

 

[DCBC]

I agree for the most part Peter, but no dive may be considered benign until after it's over. Circumstances being what they are can change what is expected to something that isn't...

I have to laugh that this thread is still going on.

As one of the people who did do some deep air diving "back in the day" I'm pretty much agnostic. HOWEVER, can everyone agree on the following (or at least some of the following):

a. Recreational diving, in general, is a pretty benign activity;

b. The deeper one dives, the less benign recreational diving becomes;

c. Entering into an overhead (real or virtual) also makes recreational diving less benign;

d. Adding He to the gas mix reduces narcosis;

e. Reducing narcosis makes recreational diving more benign; and

f. How benign one wants a dive to be is up to the diver.

 

[Centrals]

If He does genuinely run dry, you can bet your last buck that the commercial dive industry will find an alternative.

Combine H2 to produce He and tons of energy like our SUN does. The technology is NOT there yet!!

 

[lamont]

I think the Oil Companies that depend on us going deep to keep the flow going, will ensure that a supply of Helium is found. We use it in such vast quantities that they have got to maintain regular supplies. A 6 man team in saturation breathing a 4/96 or 2/98 Heliox mix compressed to 15 to 30 or more atmospheres is a LOT of Helium. Even with scrubber and reclaim being used (my UltraJewel claims 90% reclaim efficiency) it is huge quantities being consumed. Thats one 6 man sat team. Multiply that by all of them deployed in all the various oil patches, and its a hell of a lot more than you can imagine.

breathing gases all combined is 3% of the total use of helium. biggest use is in cryogenics in industry, medicine and science. the LHC at CERN uses 96 metric tons of helium to cool it. then its obviously used for welding, and for inert atmospheres for science and industry.

and, yes, once helium gets too expensive there will be a lot of people in important positions in the economy whose businesses will start to get hurt by it.

i'd guess that china will be the first country to do something about it and to start capturing more out of their natural gas mining operations and subsidizing their science and industry with it -- if they're not already doing it...

its not running out.