Q for the DM's out there...perks etc.,

[DrSteve]

I am about 3/4 of the way through my DM course. Some of it has been good, some of it has been bad. It's left me reconsidering whether I want to continue as a "working" DM after I complete everything. The latest incident was my "no brand name visible" mask needing to be replaced by a shop "obvious" brand. OK that's fine if I was a card carrying DM, but right now I am still a student!

So at the end of the day it raises some questions:
1. How many of you receive pay in cash for being a DM?
2. How many of your receive compensation to cover out of pocket expenses? This could be in the form of cash reimbursement or having your hotel/meals covered if you stay overnight during check out dives, air fills or gas (the kind you use to make your car go)
3. Shop equipment - OK I understand why, it makes sense it's the economics. What kind of discount?
4. Discounted courses
5. Umbrella policy insurance

Currently the shop I am doing this through does not pay their DM's. However if you do a full weekend at the quarry your hotel room (you might have to share), evening meal and air fills are covered by the instructors. You also get a gratis lunch provided by the shop as they grill. Sometimes you might get a tip after a quarry trip, but there are no guarantees (and I don't believe it should be even expected). Shop purchases are at 35% off retail (putting it in the realm of L/Pro prices) or actual + 10%. Umbrella insurance is available at 175/year.

At the end of the day I know that no one goes into DMing or instructing to make money. But I am not going into it to lose money and it seems that ultimately I will lose money.

Also, I'm curious how many people learned much during their DM course? I've learned some minor points so far, but nothing to justify the cost of the course so far.

Cheers!

 

[Doc]

Looking at your dive profile, it is no surprise that you have only added some "minor points" to your learning.

The DM class (and also the AI and beyond) has very little to do with learning any SCUBA skills. It is the introductory step in teaching you to teach.

There are a lot of people that are great at what they do, there are a lot fewer that have the ability or training to teach it.

These courses are a moist clinic on how to convery information, Teaching 101.

You will learn the foundation to "demonstration quality skills demo". Yeah, you can clear your mask, etc., but can you demonstrate it underwater using a specific proceess and pattern breakdown that will convey it to a student? You will learn to teach.

And make coffee. And the tank carrying thing.

The best part of being a DM? It's the adoration of the chicks, man.

 

[herman]

Pay....discounts....break even......


Actually, I am not sure I will DM either, for the reasons you posted. I don't mind just breaking even but from what I can tell (granted this is an assumption on my part based on what information I can gather) I don't think I can. On the other hand I am not going to PAY to DM. We shall see.

 

[bubblemonkey]

At the end of the day I know that no one goes into DMing or instructing to make money. But I am not going into it to lose money and it seems that ultimately I will lose money.


Cheers!

I will be doing my DM and IDC next year and I am under no illusions that I will in any way make money, hopefully when I am a working instructor it will pay me enough that I can pay for food and acomodation (we are talkng asia here) and dive for free but I will still expect to pay for all my own gear and insurance.

but like I say you dive for free, maybe not totally free but cheaper than paying for fun dives.

 

[jviehe]

I am about 3/4 of the way through my DM course. Some of it has been good, some of it has been bad. It's left me reconsidering whether I want to continue as a "working" DM after I complete everything. The latest incident was my "no brand name visible" mask needing to be replaced by a shop "obvious" brand. OK that's fine if I was a card carrying DM, but right now I am still a student!

So at the end of the day it raises some questions:
1. How many of you receive pay in cash for being a DM?
2. How many of your receive compensation to cover out of pocket expenses? This could be in the form of cash reimbursement or having your hotel/meals covered if you stay overnight during check out dives, air fills or gas (the kind you use to make your car go)
3. Shop equipment - OK I understand why, it makes sense it's the economics. What kind of discount?
4. Discounted courses
5. Umbrella policy insurance

Currently the shop I am doing this through does not pay their DM's. However if you do a full weekend at the quarry your hotel room (you might have to share), evening meal and air fills are covered by the instructors. You also get a gratis lunch provided by the shop as they grill. Sometimes you might get a tip after a quarry trip, but there are no guarantees (and I don't believe it should be even expected). Shop purchases are at 35% off retail (putting it in the realm of L/Pro prices) or actual + 10%. Umbrella insurance is available at 175/year.

At the end of the day I know that no one goes into DMing or instructing to make money. But I am not going into it to lose money and it seems that ultimately I will lose money.

Also, I'm curious how many people learned much during their DM course? I've learned some minor points so far, but nothing to justify the cost of the course so far.

Cheers!

Keep in mind that Divemaster can teach certain programs on their own. If you plan to make money, that will be up to you. You can set up dive trips, and get paid to lead them, teach refreshers, teach dive experiences pre cert. You also may not be in a good area for being a DM. But do it at a dive resort and you can make plenty of money.

As for shop requirements, those will vary. I am in agreement that a shop should treat their DMs well, pay expenses, at the least loan them new gear, and pay insurance, plus a wage.

As for learning, you get what you put into it. I make my DM students do a lot of work, and demonstrate and teach as much as Im allowed to let them do.

 

[Jon C]

What do these have in common?

1. Divemastering
2. Musician
3. Veternarian Assistant

Well, for one thing, I have done each. And another, they sound exciting but don't pay well. I am sure there are other jobs that qualify, but these three I have personal experience with. In most situations, even if you are GREAT at any, your boss would rather not pay you (or pay very little) or get someone with less talent that still gets the job done.

As most of you are familiar with #1; I will share my experience with #2 and #3.

Musicians...especially guitarist in So Cal...are a dime a dozen. Most guitarist I saw in the club scene were as good or better than me. Still, their bands had to "pay (the club owner) to play" in their venue simply because other less talented bands with rich parents could buy their way in. At one point in the late 90's you didn't even need to audition or send in a tape. It led to the end of quality bands playing at the clubs along the Strip in L.A. Of course a few bands made it...but it was easier to be doctor or a lawyer and the hours are better.

Veternarian Assistant...how many kids in high school wanted this job? 'Nuff said. Minimum wage and crappy (literally) working conditions...but it sure sounded like it would be cool, huh?

I am afraid DM'ing falls into the same group. Do it 'cause you love it, or you will eventually hate it.

Jon

 

[Cacia]

To sum up opportunities I have enjoyed

Free boat dives

Paid travel and expenses to environmental events and projects

Autonomy and increased freedom from restrictive rules and policies at dive travel locations

Informal connections to people who give me great pricing or free gear

never have I accepted money to dive or taken tips because I prefer to stay independent and find that enlightened self interest of trading and bartering is more rewarding.

DM's in Hawaii work their butts off and hump a lot of tanks for less than minimum wage, if that. By not accepting money, I can be free to create my own "job" on a given day, rather than follow the program.

For example, I will help out an operator in a jam and take a couple certed divers on a guided dive....but I am not interested in taking a large group of unknowns out in bad conditions for the man. Once you start taking money, it gets sucky.

BUT, through trade, my hobby has been heavily subsidized over the years.

 

[DrSteve]

All great replies - thanks everyone.

I'm going to kind of comment to Catherine's reply a bit. I too have worked in the other side of things and have instructional certs in these areas:
Sailing instructor,
Karate instructor
Personal trainer
Chemistry tutor (that's the Dr part...)

Level of satisfaction from each of these activities? Phenomenal. Although now, I must admit I prefer to sail for my own enjoyment than teach - but that's not bad since I actively taught for over 15 years. Ironically my worst teaching experiences (in sailing) were when I got paid $7/hour to teach and that was due to the type of students the operation had.

DMing...still under evaluation. Perhaps because I am at the pool session/open water check outs I have a different perspective from those of you who work in some fashion for a dive boat operation or at more desirable locations. Most people I know who DM on boats on the east coast of the US, do so because of the cost of taking trips as a paying customer. They get usually one dive per trip "in between dives" and usually gets tips as well. That's not so bad.

Cheers.

 

[tstormdiver]

What do these have in common?

1. Divemastering
2. Musician
3. Veternarian Assistant

Well, for one thing, I have done each. And another, they sound exciting but don't pay well. I am sure there are other jobs that qualify, but these three I have personal experience with. In most situations, even if you are GREAT at any, your boss would rather not pay you (or pay very little) or get someone with less talent that still gets the job done.

As most of you are familiar with #1; I will share my experience with #2 and #3.

Musicians...especially guitarist in So Cal...are a dime a dozen. Most guitarist I saw in the club scene were as good or better than me. Still, their bands had to "pay (the club owner) to play" in their venue simply because other less talented bands with rich parents could buy their way in. At one point in the late 90's you didn't even need to audition or send in a tape. It led to the end of quality bands playing at the clubs along the Strip in L.A. Of course a few bands made it...but it was easier to be doctor or a lawyer and the hours are better.

Veternarian Assistant...how many kids in high school wanted this job? 'Nuff said. Minimum wage and crappy (literally) working conditions...but it sure sounded like it would be cool, huh?

I am afraid DM'ing falls into the same group. Do it 'cause you love it, or you will eventually hate it.

Jon

On point #3 I say "here here!" I was a liscenced Veterinary Technologist (AKA 4 year degree) for 6 yrs. When I left there I wasn't making much over minimum wage. When asked why I left to work in a paper mill, I simply state that it is the difference between making $15,000/ yr or $53,000/ yr- no contest. I am considering getting into a dive master course at the first of the year. I am not looking to get paid or anything, just maybe free air fills, lodging, if needed, personal developement and all the diving I can probably smile at. I look at diving as a hobby not as a career, and I don't know of many hobbies that are cheap.

 

[Jon C]

and I don't know of many hobbies that are cheap.

Tell me about it...35 guitars and several amplifiers later. :bandsmlz:

And now $CUBA. I should have collected matchbooks.

Just to be clear, I enjoyed and still enjoy playing music, and obviously my time served at the vet hospitals did not diminish my love of animals and I love diving, so ....

Jon