question about newbies

[Straegen]

I think it depends more on the vet actually assuming the newb can control ascent/descent on some basic level. Most accidents happen when people are complacent not when they are on alert and double checking everything. If the vet is good and watches the diver closely, it will almost certainly go well. When the newb does his 10th deep dive with XYZ stranger buddy, that scenario is far more dangerous IMO. Just enough confidence to overlook things and with a buddy that might not be a "buddy".

 

[JohnB47]

There's maybe nothing you can effectively do. What I'd try, though, is to ask the veteran diver how much gas he'd calculated it would take to safely bring both veteran and newbie up on one tank while they were stressed....He had calculated that, right??

I like what BioLogic said. There is not that much difference between 60' and 100' EXCEPT that air and NDL time are exhausted more quickly. If those issues have been planned carefully, and if the newbie is comfortable and competent in the water, there should not be a problem. But if neither diver has planned the dive, they are an accident waiting to happen.

 

[spectrum]

Describes my first non class dive. Went beyond 100 feet on a steel 72 with the assistant instructor for the class as my buddy. There was stuff he wanted to see at that depth.

I think too often sites and dives are planned with secondary motivations such as leaders interest or a desire to impress. A new (or veteran) diver may be jazzed with going deep but can can have a perfectly memorable dive at a lesser depth or in safer conditions.

Divers going beyond their limits is nothing new. Limits are only guidelines and are skewed towards the weakest kink. Unless you feel the other diver is not qualified to mentor this dive then the only question is do you implicate yourself by participating.

Pete

 

[k ellis]

well it went well on the dive but too close for my comfort. I understand the newer diver surfaced with only 400 lbs left. At least no one got hurt. After seeing so many disasters in life I just dont want to see one thats needless. Ive had to tell families of loved ones who died in car accidents and of natural causes but I just cant imagine telling a family member that their loved one made a poor choice that could have been avoided that they no longer have that loved one.

 

[Herk_Man]

I know it can be done and many do it all the time. I am just worried that if I did not speak my mind in advance and something happens then the legal implications of people saying I could have stopped it or I should have spoken up. Getting sued for just being there and as the courts would try to put it "You should have known better"

I would say that you are only liable if you have the authority to step in and demand that the diver not do it. If you don't have that authority, then talking with them about it and letting them know that you think it is a bad idea and providing some reasons should relieve you of culpability.

Beyond that, either the young diver is confident and capable and will have no problem, or natural selection will make us all a little stronger.

 

[Lead_carrier]

If I have a reason to be involved, then a discussion will be involved. If it is just 2 divers that I have just met, don't know or just on the same boat with. Then it is not a great lot of my business. For all I know, it could be Thal, Jim, Walter,..etc. being the one taking the newbie down and I don't feel qualified to question their judgement on something like that. Just because you think you could be sued because you were there isn't much of a reason IMO.
Using your logic, should you monitor everyone that has a glass or two of wine the next time you're at a restaurant for dinner.

 

[Darnold9999]

I think too often sites and dives are planned with secondary motivations such as leaders interest or a desire to impress. A new (or veteran) diver may be jazzed with going deep but can can have a perfectly memorable dive at a lesser depth or in safer conditions.

Divers going beyond their limits is nothing new. Limits are only guidelines and are skewed towards the weakest kink. Unless you feel the other diver is not qualified to mentor this dive then the only question is do you implicate yourself by participating.

Pete

Except there was no 60' limit at the time, we had a perfectly comfortable dive, and did a blue water ascent with no issues at all. I don't think anyone even thought twice about it. At the time the training was such that at the end you were certified to go to 130 feet and the expectation was that you could and would dive within that limitation. 100 feet was well within the limitation and not particularly dangerous given the parties involved. I - obviously - had never dived the site so of course I would defer to my buddy who had. (At the time) 100 feet was just beyond my comfort level free diving so to be at that depth with an air supply was not really much of a stretch.

All this to say that the answer to the OP question is it depends. Some people will be absolutely comfortable, and more importantly safe at 100 feet with a mentor - others not comfortable and not safe at 10 feet.

 

[oceanbound]

I don't know; the guide who took me to 130 feet was looking for some white-tipped reef sharks that live in some ledges at that depth, and also wanted to show us a field of garden eels that were down there. We saw both things.

If I were on the boat now, and heard an instructor preparing to take a diver with 14 dives to 130 feet, I think I'd feel obligated to ask some questions and probably look like a jerk in the process. But I can see that woman on the boat, excited about the clear, warm water, with the gas consumption of a bird (I've always had that) and she did that dive, had enormous fun and nothing went wrong. And I wouldn't do that dive, with that equipment and that gas in that place again today.

this too sounds like my 18th dive, Advance training, and on the "O". It went without a hitch and we were well briefed by instructor as well as captain. I was very comfortable in the water and loved every bit of it. I went no further than 120 and that was very brief. Of course now that I've read too much, experienced too much, and dove too much, not sure if i would recommend it to everyone. But we are all different and learn and respond diffrently.

 

[Joe21]

Id tell the newb to get a big tank.

 

[CamG]

Greetings K ellis and for me personally if I know the new diver I do not hesitate to ask a few questions. If I know the instructor well enough I will ask him a few as well.
What irony that you pose this question as this type of situation just took place a few weekend ago. I learned that there are many different levels of conservative dive planning and new diver assessment.

I have seen new divers that are very capable of doing this dive with a experienced diver one on one. It is my personal belief that it takes really knowing the skill levels and comfort levels of your dive buddies and more importantly YOUR SELF!
I feel honest appraisal is a necessity and as others have mentioned greatly lacking in some areas. How many "experienced" divers have you seen that needed to revisit OW training in particular buoyancy control.

At the end of the day once you have spoken your mind respectfully it is their choice to do what ever dive they wish. Your conscious is clear end of story.
Dive safe and have fun!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....Keep learning!