Questions for Instructors

[Rick Murchison]

Our rental gear consists of jacket style BC's and standard Reg/Octopus setup. I teach in a jacket & standard Reg/Octopus to start with, then show 'em an integrated weight jacket & integrated safe second later. I show 'em the Hogarthian rig with both Transpac and BP before they buy anything, but I don't teach in 'em.
Rick

 

[Hallmac]

and as Instructors you should too!
I teach SSI which means I have to teach out of a shop, no independents. As part of the shops responsibility they provide jacket BCs, regulators and consoles, weight belts and tanks with the course. They also (recommend using the equipment the shop sells)
As the expert the students paid for, My job is to teach them how to become great divers. Therefore I wear what I believe in and how I believe it should be done based upon my training and real world experience. ( after all that is what makes us the expert right). I have found it is easy to do both and stay with what the shop sells. If I don't match the equipment used by the students as provided they ask why! I then get yet another chance to educate them and improve their knowledge.
As we all know students want to be like their instructors. So why match the rental stuff and give them the wrong message that it is the best stuff. Show them how to use the stuff they have and how to use the gear you believe in and why you belive it. Alot of them will get the good stuff so they can finish the course with it. which means you don't have to deal with poor equipment issues.
Secondly when they see you using gear they don't have and understand why you have it they won't spend hard earned money on the wrong equipment only to learn it really doesn't do what they wanted it to. So you save them money in the long run which means again you educated correctly. All agency's allow you to do more than required so do it and be the best you can in all aspect. That includes equipment choice.

Hallmac

 

[Rick Murchison]

Hallmac once bubbled...
and as Instructors you should too!
I teach SSI which means I have to teach out of a shop, no independents. As part of the shops responsibility they provide jacket BCs, regulators and consoles, weight belts and tanks with the course. They also (recommend using the equipment the shop sells)
As the expert the students paid for, My job is to teach them how to become great divers. Therefore I wear what I believe in and how I believe it should be done based upon my training and real world experience. ( after all that is what makes us the expert right). I have found it is easy to do both and stay with what the shop sells. If I don't match the equipment used by the students as provided they ask why! I then get yet another chance to educate them and improve their knowledge.
As we all know students want to be like their instructors. So why match the rental stuff and give them the wrong message that it is the best stuff. Show them how to use the stuff they have and how to use the gear you believe in and why you belive it. Alot of them will get the good stuff so they can finish the course with it. which means you don't have to deal with poor equipment issues.
Secondly when they see you using gear they don't have and understand why you have it they won't spend hard earned money on the wrong equipment only to learn it really doesn't do what they wanted it to. So you save them money in the long run which means again you educated correctly. All agency's allow you to do more than required so do it and be the best you can in all aspect. That includes equipment choice.

Hallmac

I agree - sort of... Wearing "what I believe in" may or may not be the best thing for my students - wearing what I believe is the best for them might be something considerably different than what I believe is best for me. As an extreme example, sometimes I dive a 30+ year old plastic backpack and harness with a steel 72 - I believe in that rig mightily, and when conditions allow (rarely) I dive that puppy - no wetsuit, no BC, no weightbelt - freedom!
What I do is try to expose them to a variety of stuff (and since I'm SSI too, it is all stuff the store sells) and give them my very best information on what I believe are the advantages and disadvantages to each piece of gear. I do my very best to be that "forward looking" friend who recommends for the long run.
Rick

 

[Hallmac]

But, It seems like having the bungied back-up could be a hassle at times for pool skills.

If you feel this is a hassle then it probably is not the best way. If it is not the best way why do it at all.

The reason I asked is when the real situation presents itself and we are task loaded a hassle is the last thing we need right. We train to make things easy and fast which in turn lowers our stress level and solves the problem.

If it is simple in the pool it is simple in the open water.

My second question is how are you going to react when things go wrong. If you are training one way and diving another what are you going to do when the **** hits the fan and you go into fight mode. It may increase the problem if the safe second is not where your body expected it to be and you are dealing with one or two students in trouble and four, six,or dare I say eight others who are in your charge.

I would again recommend that we as instructors dive the equipment we feel best suited all the time and explain it to the student. It is best for our safety as well as the students.

What do you guys/gals think am I off base?

Hallmac

 

[Hallmac]

Sorry! I'm a slow typer.

I understand what you are saying and what you are trying to do for your students.

I don't want to take away your fun stuff. I have one of those old USD backpacks as well. and you and I know what it takes to dive those things perfect neutrality or really strong legs.

Still think that while teaching you should use the equipment you have trained with the most so you are ready to assist when needed.

I have a feeling you allready knew the answer just wanted our opinions too.

Hallmac

 

[DiveTub]

Hallmac once bubbled...


What do you guys/gals think am I off base?

Hallmac

Who said you where off base?

I agree you teach what you are comfortable in without giving the student overload on information and gear, it is an Open Water class not a Technical Class.

I teach in and preach on top of the line gear, no point in purchasing crap that is going to outgrow your diving in 1 or 2 years.

 

[Tavi]

Hallmac once bubbled...


If you feel this is a hassle then it probably is not the best way. If it is not the best way why do it at all.


My second question is how are you going to react when things go wrong. If you are training one way and diving another what are you going to do when the **** hits the fan and you go into fight mode. It may increase the problem if the safe second is not where your body expected it to be........


Hallmac

First question: I only thought The bungie would be a hassle for doff and don skills. It would be either putting the bungie on and off over my head or taking the back-up out of the bungie and replacing it. Hassle??maybe not. What do you guys/gals do that teach with bungied back-ups?? perhaps I'll try it for a week and see.

Second question: This is what started this whole line of thinking. one of the Instructor Trainers swam up to me giving me the ooa signal. I automaticaly gave him the reg from my mouth. I then took my octo for myself to breath from. It was this automatic response that got me thinking maybe I should keep my regs set up with the long hose. Also there is one instructor who uses an air 2, so he is demonstrating donating from the mouth.

I think it's good that the students see different systems. but maybe the first couple sessions in the pool isn't the time for it. If your thinking about sales though, this is when some are thinking about getting their own stuff.

Thanks for the responses so far!!!

 

[MikeFerrara]

I show student the different setups and talk about pros and cons of each. However, I only use what I think works best and that's what I teach. If someone can show me in the water that anything works better than having the alternate around the neck I will certainly think about teaching that way but in my experience it doesnt. My student wear the alternate around the neck and donate from their mouth. If they go to the Caribbean and rent gear all they need is a peice of tubing or bungie in their pocket to make the eqiuipment usable. Iwear a back plate because I don't like bc's for lots of reasons. I have both available for students to try but the bc's will all be replaced eventually. Students get trim faster and easier in the BP.

Most classes I see at places like Gilboa and Haigh the students have everything dangling. I hear from divers who rent at resorts that there isn't any way to secure the equipment so it dangles. Should I teach that way so students are prepared for it? I tell them about it so they are prepared for it but will not have them dive that way.

Don and doff is no big deal either way and is certainlt no argument for a goofy configuration.

An instructor who is going to teach for a shop who doesn't see things this way is going to have a problem. Me...I just wouldn't teach for them.

 

[mddolson]

In a perfect world, I would be teaching with a 7 ft long hoses, backplate and wings in the pool with my students.
Well the world isn't perfect so that ain't happenin.

I have been using a 7ft hose for personal diving only for the last two seasons, and have been using it with my advanced diver courses.

I work for a relatively new and small shop. They have 20 rental regulators, 30 BCs' (stab jackets) and 30 aluminum tanks, 6 nitrox tanks. The regs are standard sport issue, (40 inch) octopus.

While I do support the basic priciples of DIR, I am not DIR.
I wear a snorkel, a computer on a retractor, and Volo fins (but they do have SS spring straps).

I use a standard BC and regulator in class (I have two separate sets of gear for pool and o/w). The students are introduced in class to the long hose during my regulator/valves lessons along with J,K and DIN valves , and the backplate and wing during the BC/ exposure suits class.

I wear a backplate and wing duirng our o/w training.

I've been considering switching to the long hose for our second day of open water training.

Mike D
:blfish:

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Tavi once bubbled...


First question: I only thought The bungie would be a hassle for doff and don skills. It would be either putting the bungie on and off over my head or taking the back-up out of the bungie and replacing it. Hassle??maybe not. What do you guys/gals do that teach with bungied back-ups?? perhaps I'll try it for a week and see.

Second question: This is what started this whole line of thinking. one of the Instructor Trainers swam up to me giving me the ooa signal. I automaticaly gave him the reg from my mouth. I then took my octo for myself to breath from. It was this automatic response that got me thinking maybe I should keep my regs set up with the long hose. Also there is one instructor who uses an air 2, so he is demonstrating donating from the mouth.

I think it's good that the students see different systems. but maybe the first couple sessions in the pool isn't the time for it. If your thinking about sales though, this is when some are thinking about getting their own stuff.

Thanks for the responses so far!!!

First Question: I don and doff while wearing the bungee. It took some practice, but it does work.

Actually, as an aside, the real pain is the remove and replace BC on surface. I hate sitting on the BP and sliding it up my back. But it can be done.

Second Question: IMHO, it is good to show various types of gear. One of the most senior AI's teaches in a TPII. Another is in a back inflate BC. We explain the differences during the class.


Our lectures include a section on the various types of equipment.

If we have time, we will even bring out some of the old stuff (double hose regs and harnesses). We won't dive in it because it hasn't been checked in forever, but its an interesting lecture.