RAID vs SDI vs GUE vs...

[Lorenzoid]

Just being honest here.

GUE is the only agency that has what seems to you like a "doctrine"? Okay, sounds like you have made up your mind in this regard.

An instructor affiliated with any of the major tech training agencies will get you where you want to go. The differences really do come down to the quality of the instructor, not what agency is listed on the card. You have probably seen the maxim in other threads: "It's the instructor, not the agency." There are even instructors who teach for more than one of the major agencies (and I would include RAID and GUE in that group, though they are smaller than, say, TDI), and you get the same quality instruction from such an instructor regardless of which agency's name ends up on your card.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I have a picture of the GUE doctrine (not a nice word, but that's the impression I get of it).

Hmm, I had some mis-impressions prior to taking Fundamentals. I did the course to improve since I already had AOW and Nitrox so the course wasn't going to certify for anything "new". It was great and the GUE instructors/people I have met are just passionate divers who want to help you to improve.

 

[Imla]

Can also recommend the people at Scuba Academie. Did my Cave classes with JP. Have been on several trips where both JP and Anne Marie were a big part of having a good trip. Had the pleasure of diving with Ferry Schram in France, and while I have not done any classes with him, if he teaches as pleasantly as he acts as a buddy, anyone would be in good hands. I don't know anything about their RAID program though.

 

[Cheizz]

GUE is the only agency that has what seems to you like a "doctrine"? Okay, sounds like you have made up your mind in this regard.

That's your assumption. GUE does feel like a doctrine. PADI does too, just a different one. And this is just what gets me worked up every time: What agencies (through different channels, including through instructors affiliated with them) put out there is what gets them a certain reputation. With GUE it's most 'in your face'. With other agencies, I'll have to see. I just really dislike the arrogant-sounding "this/our way or you'll die" tone that resonates through all these course descriptions, websites and videos.
I have been in touch with a few instructors directly though. That's all fine and they seem human enough. Let's see.

 

[Lorenzoid]

That's your assumption. GUE does feel like a doctrine. PADI does too, just a different one. And this is just what gets me worked up every time: What agencies (through different channels, including through instructors affiliated with them) put out there is what gets them a certain reputation. With GUE it's most 'in your face'. With other agencies, I'll have to see. I just really dislike the arrogant-sounding "this/our way or you'll die" tone that resonates through all these course descriptions, websites and videos.
I have been in touch with a few instructors directly though. That's all fine and they seem human enough. Let's see.

I can't criticize how you "feel," so I do apologize. I would just say be mindful of how much of your feeling is based on today's GUE instruction and whether any of your feeling stems from information posted by people describing their experiences long ago with GUE (or worse yet, people repeating what they read on someone else's post about their long-ago experiences). I would suggest talking with JP Bresser if you haven't already.

The GUE course descriptions, videos, etc., hadn't struck me as giving a message of "our way or you'll die," but I think I know what you mean. The message I get is more like: "This is our way of doing it, and though there may be other perfectly reasonable ways of doing it, if you do it our way you are very unlikely to die."

 

[Cheizz]

It's mostly Dr Evil (Doctor Ben he's called I think?) and people like that. The front-faces of the 'brand' GUE that annoy me. I am sure their courses are great in terms of quality. I just don't feel like signing up because they don't seem to be happy to be diving... So - with me at least - they have very ineffective marketing that gets them 1-0 down.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

GUE is the only agency that has what seems to you like a "doctrine"? Okay, sounds like you have made up your mind in this regard.

I think GUE has a unique philosophy that results in a set of consistent practices from recreational diving to carefully planned expeditions with technical diving. They build upon past training to ensure bad habits are not acquired and interfere with future training (and expeditions).

If I had come to that realization before I took fundies, I would have been less of a PITA to my instructor.

It's mostly Dr Evil (Doctor Ben he's called I think?) and people like that. The front-faces of the 'brand' GUE that annoy me. I am sure their courses are great in terms of quality. I just don't feel like signing up because they don't seem to be happy to be diving... So - with me at least - they have very ineffective marketing that gets them 1-0 down.

Go for the skills. You don't have to drink the Kool Aid. That's the advice that I got before I took fundies. Go back to split fins if you want. Or a jacket style BCD. Or left-lean, right rich. Whatever you want.

The GI3 disciples certainly do GUE no favors.

The best courses I've taken are Human Factors in Diving (non diving) and GUE fundies. The PADI sidemount course I took was a good one, but it was from a cave diver who had also been through the GUE system, and I realized that later when I took fundies. GUE doesn't have a monopoly on those skills of course. They didn't invent anything (but AG did organize a really good course). If GUE isn't your stroopwafel, find someone who will teach that foundation with those stringent requirements. RAID is one organization to look at as well.

 

[NothingClever]

I’m not a GUE diver but I’ve dived with GUE technical divers.

None of them were dogmatic (I think that might be the word you’re looking for).

I think the difference is GUE has very well-defined standards and techniques and isn’t ashamed to reinforce them and hold each other accountable.

While other certifying organizations may certainly have or, in fact, do have clear standards, their culture seems to allow a sudden relaxation after certification.

If I were to approach a non-GUE diver and offer a polite, nonintrusive reminder about something, the likelihood increases significantly the diver will react as if his artistic freedom has been impinged, his individualism trampled and his independent thinking oppressed.

OK, that cat can have it his way but shouldn’t expect a lot of sympathy when he gets on the wrong gas because his switching protocol is just weak.

Considering the sloppy nature a great portion of the dive world appears to me, I think more emphasis on standards and accountability is a good thing regardless of the certifying organization.

Don’t get me wrong - you can get great instruction from non-GUE divers. It might involve a little more work to find somebody that is laser-focused on standards and training that crystallizes your skills whereas I think you know what you’re getting when you hire a GUE instructor.

The above spectrum and situation is similar in shooting schools, motorcycle road-racing schools, etc, etc.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

It would make more sense if your skills are up-to-date before contemplating any technical course.

 

[Cheizz]

It would make more sense if your skills are up-to-date before contemplating any technical course.

I agree. A fundamentals course (GUE) or 'Intro to tech' (TDI) - although in themselves not technical courses I think - would take care of that. That's part of the path to most tech disciplines, IMO.

STill, plenty to choose from.