Recreational OW diving with long hoses (or the 'usual' r/h hose routing) ...

[boulderjohn]

Folks are focused on the wrong thing, hose length. The first issue to deal with is surrendering the primary. Once that's done we can talk about the length of the primary hose (I'd suggest that for recreational diving a 5 ft hose is about right (under the right arm and around the back of the head).

For normal recreational diving, especially in a wet suit, I fully agree. The extra length of the 7 foot hose is an unnecessary bother to store when diving in clear waters on an open reef.

In my only experience with a 5 foot hose, I was in a dry suit with my thickest underwear, and it simply wasn't long enough for me. In a wet suit with no canister light to hold the extra hose length, the 5 foot hose is better.

 

[Thalassamania]

Absolutely John. With the easy availability of custom length hoses there is not reason to not get it perfect, 5 ft. just happens to work well for me, in a wetsuit sans can-light.

 

[roydude]

I thought of all the times my octo had come out of its retainer during a dive. I thought of all the times I have seen other divers whose octos had come loose during a dive. I thought about how many times that I have to make sure that all octos are in place before having students do an alternate air exercise.

Aaaaah - a very good point Boulderjohn (... may I call you 'Boulder'? :blinking: )! Although it's actually pretty easy to secure an octopus so it frees when needed but never 'falls out', I have to concede your point here 100%. I see totally loose or very badly routed octopi(?) on rec. divers a lot, but never on a hog loop setup. They are always very neat and always 'in place'. Right there you may have just given me the big 'plus' I was needing here to be honest.

Okay, after this very interesting discussion here's where I'm at:

Positives of long hose (particularly 'hog') for rec. OW diving:

1. More streamlined (although to be fair, much as this appeals to my ocd on streamlining, it's not going to make such a big difference in OW.).
2. Better options once you've donated (if he's low​ on air, but for the record: if you're donating for OOA then this is now a rescue, the dive is over).
3. Uniform kit configuration. If you're ever thinking of going the tech / peneration route then it'll help to be familiar with the hog setup by the time your training starts, and if that's what's familiar to you because you do tech diving, there's a clear advantage to sticking with it.
4. (Biggest one of all IMO) The donated reg is always where it's meant to be and never dangling unsecured 'somewhere'.

Negatives of long hose (hog or otherwise):

1. If the OOD starts to ascend too quickly and he's out of reach, regaining control could get pretty messy.

I can't really get away from that point. If he's actually run out of air it probably means he's not an attentive diver. If that's his nature then there's a fair chance he'll also have poor control over his ascent rate, especially if it's vertical with no reference. Can't see myself ever wanting to let an OOA diver get beyond an arms reach once he's breathing off my reg.

That said, it's been pointed out that you can of course donate just some of the free hose.

I actually feel a lot more settled on this than I was at the start of this discussion - especially the dangling octopus issue. Frankly I think that 'pro' alone probably outweighs my only remaining 'con'!

 

[divad]

This thread makes me think that solo diving is safer, at least by half, than "buddy" diving.

 

[elan]

Long hose (7ft) is mandatory even in OW recreational dives with a scooter in OOG situation. You have to be single file in that situation.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If someone is really that bad that he'd try to drag the person helping him to the surface maybe it's better to let Darwin settle it. Don't create or allow someone else to create a second victim out of you.

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[fisheater]

The long hose on OW situations becomes even more convenient (if not necessary) when there is kelp or boat traffic. Straight up is not always an option or a good option.


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[Peter Guy]

Negatives of long hose (hog or otherwise):

1. If the OOD starts to ascend too quickly and he's out of reach, regaining control could get pretty messy.

I can't really get away from that point. If he's actually run out of air it probably means he's not an attentive diver. If that's his nature then there's a fair chance he'll also have poor control over his ascent rate, especially if it's vertical with no reference. Can't see myself ever wanting to let an OOA diver get beyond an arms reach once he's breathing off my reg.

a. IF you are using a 7 foot hose, you first ONLY donate about 4.5 feet of it -- certainly longer than a "standard" 36 or 40" Octo hose, but not too long -- and, of course, you HAVE to be able to reach the person to hand it off.

b. If, of course, you are using a shorter hose, 5 ft or even 40" (under the arm, up to the mouth but using an elbow to the primary 2nd stage), then it is not THAT much of a deal.

c. IF the person does bolt and gets away from you, how is that different from bolting and getting away from you with a 36" "standard" Octo hose?

Thal, as is often the case, hit the right point -- which is better to donate, the reg you are breathing (primary donate system) or the reg that you hope is somewhere you can reach (secondary donate system). I vote for primary donate and that it really doesn't matter how long the hose is, AS LONG AS it is "long enough" -- that is, at least 36 inches (which doesn't route all that smoothly except on a small person) which is why the 40" hose is probably as short as it should be. Whether the secondary is a bungied backup or an inline inflator/octo really makes no nevermind for a recreational setup IMHO.

 

[TSandM]

In no way have I suggested in this thread (or anywhere else) that someone using the "traditional" setup is doing it wrong.

I have chosen to do something else. The OP had some objections to the way I do things that I thought were not well-founded, so I addressed the things I thought were in error. I think there are significant benefits to adopting some kind of longer hose/bungied backup configuration, and I stated them.

Yes, there are a lot of people here who have adopted this system. It may well be that, rather than developing a social media fan club, people have actually played with both setups, and concluded that this one offers quite a few benefits?

 

[gcarter]

I was an instructor who had only seen a long hose configuration a few times in my life before I began my technical training. My attitude then was that the long hose was necessary for technical diving, but the standard octo was just fine for recreational diving. When I started tech and was diving doubles regularly, I got used to the long hose configuration, but I kept my old setup intact for recreational single tank diving.

Then I read a story about a woman who drowned in Europe. She went OOA and then went to her buddy for air. The octo had come loose from its retainer and had gotten stuck somewhere behind her buddy. They couldn't find it in time. I thought of all the times my octo had come out of its retainer during a dive. I thought of all the times I have seen other divers whose octos had come loose during a dive. I thought about how many times that I have to make sure that all octos are in place before having students do an alternate air exercise. I promptly switched my recreational set to the long hose configuration and have not looked back.

In order to work effectively, the octo retainer must be designed to release it easily. That means it will be prone to releasing on its own and not be available for the OOA diver. The bungied alternate, in contrast, is designed to stay in place, so it will likely be there when the donating diver needs it.

That's the primary reason I use the long hose for recreational diving now. Lynne (TSandM) lists some other reasons with which I agree.

I understand and acknowledge what you are saying...

but...

should a properly trained diver not also be versed in buddy breathing?