Redesigning AOW

[Teamcasa]

Why are some many folks willing, no, not willing, eager to relieve the agencies of responsibility for the standards written by the agencies?

How you got that from my post is beyond me.

Lets just face the facts, none of us are going to change the current certifying agencies policies no matter how much we whine about it. The other fact is that new and other divers seeking quality training do not have to look far and wide. There are some pretty terrific instructors out there and most of us know who they are. Some even post here on ScubaBoard.

Again, seeking and obtaining additional quality training is the divers responsibility.

 

[The_DivePirate]

Lets just face the facts, none of us are going to change the current certifying agencies policies no matter how much we whine about it. The other fact is that new and other divers seeking quality training do not have to look far and wide. There are some pretty terrific instructors out there and most of us know who they are. Some even post here on ScubaBoard.

Again, seeking and obtaining additional quality training is the divers responsibility.

Could not have said it better myself. Especially, "Seeking and obtaining additional quality training is the divers responsibility." Think about it like this, if you had car that was your pride and joy, and it needed some work, you wouldn't take it to the first or cheapest shop would you? Probably not, you'd look around, check references, and talk with the guy gonna do the work, wouldn't you? THIS IS YOUR LIFE we're talking about people, don't you think it's worth it? When I was coming up the ranks I went to a few different instructors and interviewed them, not only for background or knowledge, but for a mesh. You will learn best from someone that you feel comfortable with.

Joe

 

[diverrex]

I found the course in and of itself was good, however the thing that does need to be changed is the name. As already mentioned, get rid of the word "advanced". It gives the wrong impression. For example, I was an advanced diver at 9 dives. A person with only 9 dives is not an advanced diver. I know I was not.

I've only read part of this thread, sorry if I'm repeating someone's thoughts. I suspect you could chnage AOW to 10 dives, be more rigorous with skills and add a harder academic portion, and we would still be reading threads about someone meeting an AOW diver on a boat who couldn't dive worth crap. The biggest change simply needs to change the name from Advanced. Since (at least in PADI) an OW diver is only supposed to go to 60' and an AOW can now venture to 100' just change the name of OW to OW-60' and change AOW to OW-100'. Then there is no more confusion about any qualitative label like "Advanced".

 

[Garrobo]

Controlled emergency ascent from various depths and compass navigation.

 

[TSandM]

Blackwood, I disagree with you a little bit. I think swimming between set parameters is a good way to BEGIN to understand buoyancy control, especially if the "gates" are set at different depths, so you have to use breath control and manage your BC or suit between them. Hovering between set parameters is another excellent exercise, because you get such instant feedback on what you are doing. I'd love to have a pool big enough to set hula hoops at varying depths and get people to swim to them, hover within them, and then swim to the next. I think that would be a beautiful introduction to precise control of one's position in the water.

Controlling one's position in the column, away from a visual reference, is a much more challenging skill, but you can't do it if you can't control your position WITH a visual reference, which is where many people start.

 

[nannymouse]

Bouyancy control/ gas consumption. (all dives of AOW)
Navigation, natural and compass. (2 full dives, or parts of several dives)
Situational awareness/ good buddy (1 full dive and parts of others)
Night/ low viz (2 full dives)
Deco awareness/ narcosis (1 or 2 dives)
Propulsion/ finning (1st dive and parts of others)

It seems to me that I had major problems with my bouyancy until I got my own BC/weights. I started out with 30 lbs, and now am at 24, (and may be able to shed a few more) and my gas consumption has dropped too. Rental gear may be a contributing factor to bouyancy problems for newbies.

I have a knack for natural navigation, and sufficient topography to be where I want to be most of the time. The idea of hitting marks at various depths on various headings is awesome.

My buddy has my 6.
Damn annoying, if you ask me.

Night and low viz are not the same, but similar. Optimum would be one dive each, both at the same dive, not so much...

I would love to blast around at 100s of feet, but I don't know everything that I need to, and having a qualified instructor for my first narcosis or two sounds smart.

There has got to be more than one way to kick up a cloud of silt!!!

Where does Beginning and Intermediate Rescue come in? -N

 

[Blackwood]

Blackwood, I disagree with you a little bit. I think swimming between set parameters is a good way to BEGIN to understand buoyancy control, especially if the "gates" are set at different depths, so you have to use breath control and manage your BC or suit between them.

...snip...

Controlling one's position in the column, away from a visual reference, is a much more challenging skill, but you can't do it if you can't control your position WITH a visual reference, which is where many people start.

Of course. They're tools. But they shouldn't be the end-all-be-all. I have no problems with dive skills being introduced while kneeling (at least not early on), and I have no problems with hoops being used to introduce depth precision. But at the end of the day, the requirement/standard should be to perform whatever tasks in a hover, and to control depth without the use of visual targets other than a team mate.

I've not taken PPB/AOW, so my understanding is all based on hearsay. That said, the people I've talked to who HAVE taken those classes related to me that they went out into the water, swam through some hoops, and called it a day. That's what I object to.

Certifying someone as 'buoyancy specialist' who has only swam through hoops is like sending a kid out on a mountain bike after verifying that he can ride with training wheels.

"If you can swim through this series of hoops, you have good buoyancy." That may be true, but it's potentially useless if you can't swim the same course without the hoops in place. If you're always going to be diving walls, then maybe you don't need the zero-vis work. But if you need the hoops and you get blown off a wreck and have to come up in blue water and you don't have an SMB, you have a problem.





Different people have different requirements, and thus no one class will be sufficient for everyone. So I wouldn't re-design AOW. Rather, I would (and did ) avoid it.

 

[fisherdvm]

PPB should be taught by allowing the diver to experiment with a variety of clip on weight, tanks (AL and Steel), and different BC combination in an ideal situation. A diver can then see how a change in center of gravity affects him in and out of the water. Be nice if he can try a BP/wing with a steel back plate, vs one with an ABS plate.

He should be challenged with being overweighted, and see how much the extra air in the BC can affect his ability to dive in shallow depths.

I know this goes much beyond what I've seen in the PPB video... But it would be ideal.

 

[SailNaked]

As a consumer I would like:

Nitrox, about 6 deep dives 140fsw
Night diving 3 dives
all possible technical information about physiology of diving.
Lots of Deco information
Any and all skills to be safe, including rescue and medivac info.
staging tanks, line use, lifting stuff from the bottom,
emergency drills for buddy failure.
every bit of information on cave/wreck diving, and 8 cave/wreck dives with the last being most complicated.
10 just cause dives
and a really cool badge to sew on my dive suit.
And I would be willing to pay $3k for it and it could take 6mo if needed.

then the the progression could be OW /Uber Open Water/AI/DI

 

[The_DivePirate]

As a consumer I would like:

Nitrox, about 6 deep dives 140fsw
Night diving 3 dives
all possible technical information about physiology of diving.
Lots of Deco information
Any and all skills to be safe, including rescue and medivac info.
staging tanks, line use, lifting stuff from the bottom,
emergency drills for buddy failure.
every bit of information on cave/wreck diving, and 8 cave/wreck dives with the last being most complicated.
10 just cause dives
and a really cool badge to sew on my dive suit.
And I would be willing to pay $3k for it and it could take 6mo if needed.

then the the progression could be OW /Uber Open Water/AI/DI

Most of what you are asking for goes beyond rec. levels. Rec. diving consists of NDL's
(No Decompresion Limits) which is the start of the diving and dive planning, if you can't plan a dive that doesn't take you into deco, than you shouldn't be deco diving.
Also, you shouldn't need a staging bottle if you are diving recreationaly

Joe