Redesigning AOW

[Tomeck]

In the world, AOW is autonomous up to 130 feet, CMAS** can also be autonomous up to 130 feet. But in France, CMAS** is autonomous up to 66 feet (20 meters) and he is supervised up to 130 feet (40 meters), AOW is supervised up to 66 feet with "nationalist" dive shops or he is autonomous up to 66 feet and supervised up to 130 feet with "americanophil" dive shops.

 

[DuboisP]

In the world, AOW is autonomous up to 130 feet, CMAS** can also be autonomous up to 130 feet. But in France, CMAS** is autonomous up to 66 feet (20 meters) and he is supervised up to 130 feet (40 meters), AOW is supervised up to 66 feet with "nationalist" dive shops or he is autonomous up to 66 feet and supervised up to 130 feet with "americanophil" dive shops.

OW/AOW are autonomous if they are in the same diving conditions they got certified.

Can they be autonomous in dark/cold water if they learnt in Caribbeans ?

 

[Tomeck]

OW/AOW are autonomous if they are in the same diving conditions they got certified.

Can they be autonomous in dark/cold water if they learnt in Caribbeans ?

We recommend, but we do not impose.

 

[jviehe]

Let keep some of the original stuff:

Navigation & search recovery.
Deep dives.

Then Lets subtract the garbages like photography, naturalist, boat, etc.

Then add:

"Peak performance buoyancy" and proper weight balance and management.
"Rock bottom" gas management.

What else should we add or subtract?

That garbage is the whole point. PADI Adventures in Diving is about unique experiences, not skill training. People want to learn about identifying fish, taking pictures, lookig at wrecks, boat diving, etc. It can lead to AOW cert, but doesnt mean you are an expert diver, just that you have progressed from OW. If you want to make a new course that becomes OW part 2, then you focus on bouyancy, navigation, gas management, some theory, etc.

The word advanced does not mean "expert", only progress. THe industry for some reason had deemed it to mean some sort of expertise, not the agency.

 

[Blackwood]

The word advanced does not mean "expert", only progress. THe industry for some reason had deemed it to mean some sort of expertise, not the agency.

The Agency of which you speak (PADI) most certainly does recognize AOW as being indicative of expertise. Otherwise it wouldn't appear as a prerequisite on either the leadership or tecrec paths.

 

[String]

I believe that CMAS and BSAC aren't members of the RSTC, but they are still governed by the new International Standards Organisation (ISO) guidelines on scuba diving courses.

BSAC aren't even members of CMAS due to political fallout over written materials. The SAA is and BSAC gets its cards via them. Oh and SAA,ScotSac,FEDAS,CFT and most european agencies aren't in the RSTC - that seems to be a US-centred cartel of agencies.

Oh course europe has the EUF to confuse matters further.

Thus, any second level course (PADI AOW, SSI Advanced Adventurer, BSAC Sports Diver, CMAS 2* etc) must meet the same minimum requirement. There is nothing to stop any agency adding more training - it just has to meet the minimum.

Also the fact that CMAS isnt an agency as such - nations have their own agencies that meet equivalence. In most countries you dont "do a CMAS course".

Agencies, such as PADI and SSI do meet that minimum,

PADI has some content changed for teaching in EU countries as a result. One being the snorkel instead of a swim test is NOT allowed - they have to do a 200m swim. Also both float and swim have to be done prior to any open water training. There are other minor differences as well.

which may be appropriate for the fact that they are not truly a 'worldwide' agency and have to concentrate specifically on European diving conditions.

I agree that thing like SAA/BSAC training is far more catered for local conditions. Things such as delayed SMB use, rescue skills as core course and so on. The real difference i see between PADI and others is a lot of the US agencies or warm water based train a diver on the assumption that in the main they'll be diving following a trained dive guide in a group so isnt totally on their own so dont need things like buddy rescue skills, SMBs and so on early on.
However follow the leader guided dives aren't practical in much of northern europe and you find most divers are an individual buddy pair and as such have to be self sufficient with no guide to rely on. Therefore the focus is far more on preparing divers for that than some RSTC agencies that cater a lot to warm water group diving.

Yes to an extent you can tailor any course to fit the circumstances but some are designed to be specific to those environments and others aren't.

 

[jviehe]

The Agency of which you speak (PADI) most certainly does recognize AOW as being indicative of expertise. Otherwise it wouldn't appear as a prerequisite on either the leadership or tecrec paths.

Thats a false correlation. I could just as easily claim they require experience for those courses, and that AOW provides that experience. Could you show me some official information from PADI that indicates its to teach you expertise? Here is how its advertised on the website.

Move up and experience real adventure with the PADI Advanced Open Water Diver course. As you step beyond the PADI Open Water Diver level, you make five dives and have the opportunity to try some of diving’s most rewarding and useful specialty activities, such as deep diving, digital underwater photography, wreck diving and much more.

 

[Buoyant1]

That garbage is the whole point. PADI Adventures in Diving is about unique experiences, not skill training. People want to learn about identifying fish, taking pictures, lookig at wrecks, boat diving, etc. It can lead to AOW cert, but doesnt mean you are an expert diver, just that you have progressed from OW. If you want to make a new course that becomes OW part 2, then you focus on bouyancy, navigation, gas management, some theory, etc.

The word advanced does not mean "expert", only progress. THe industry for some reason had deemed it to mean some sort of expertise, not the agency.

Going with that idea...I took a wreck course last November and dive one for my course, was the dive for the AOW Adventures in diving elective...and it was (as you said) looking at a wreck. The guy that was on the AOW course that day did wreck and boat as his electives. Sorry that's a bit weenie for "advanced" Sure it was an "adventure" it was "experience" but did both of those make him a "better, more advanced" diver? nope.

"Adventures in Diving" is a cool concept, but as a vehicle for advanced certification I think it's not optimum. I think it should exist as it is, and BE a catalyst for different experiences.

 

[Blackwood]

Thats a false correlation. I could just as easily claim they require experience for those courses, and that AOW provides that experience. Could you show me some official information from PADI that indicates its to teach you expertise? Here is how its advertised on the website.

Fair enough.

And no, I can't without reading into their language, and interpretation is easily argued for and against (i.e. its a zero sum game).

 

[Rhone Man]

It was interesting to read the post above by Bouyant1 about the first dive on the Wreck Diver Speciality course as being the same dive as the "Adventure" Wreck Dive on the PADI AOW course - ie. going down and looking at a wreck.

There is a lot of talk about how the AOW is just a bit too soft for the label "advanced". I am going through various speciality courses over the course of this summer to get my PADI Master Scuba Diver rating (qualification junkie), and I have to say, the majority of those have struck me so far as pretty danged soft themselves. I appreciate it is all recreational diving and not technical diving or anything terribly hard core, but if MSD is supposed to be the pinnacle of non-professional recreational diving education, you would have thought that there would be a bit more to it.

- Deep Speciality Dive #3, examing the effect of depth on colour changes, and do a 7 minute simulated emergency decompression stop.

- Night Speciality Dive #2, demonstrate hand signals, navigate your way back to the exit point with at least 500 psi remaining.

It's all just a little bit soft given the press that PADI give it (Join the best of the best in recreational scuba diving. ... Do it by becoming a PADI Master Scuba Diver – a rating that puts you in a class of distinction).

I am sure Ice Diver and Cavern Diver courses must be pretty hard core, but the rest of them, well, I don't think they make you a master of much other than your own cheque book.