Redesigning AOW

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A less experienced diver will learn and get a lot more out of these style courses than someone that has more diving experience.

 

[DevonDiver]

The Agency of which you speak (PADI) most certainly does recognize AOW as being indicative of expertise. Otherwise it wouldn't appear as a prerequisite on either the leadership or tecrec paths.

Nope...the only people who believe that the AOW course is indicative of expertise are newly qualified, over-confident AOW divers who didn't even bother to read what their course was about.

As for AOW being a prerequisite for leadership or tecrec paths... such a claim is really scrapping the barrel of gross distortion. AOW is a prerequisite for rescue. Rescue is THEN a prerequisite for leadership level.

For tecrec, I will quote:

Prior to enrolling in the Tec Deep Diver course, you will need to verify that you meet these prerequisites:

1. Certified as a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver or equivalent.
2. Certified as a PADI Rescue Diver or equivalent.
3. Minimum Age 18 years.
4. Certified as a PADI Enriched Air Diver or equivalent.
5. Certified as a PADI Deep Diver or equivalent.
6. Have made a minimum of 100 logged dives, of which at least 20 dives were made with enriched air nitrox, 25 dives were deeper than 25 metres/60 feet and at least 15 dives were deeper than 30 metres/100 feet.

Basically - AOW is not any sort of 'jumping off point' for leadership or tech training. It's a basic level course, where someone holds your hand and shows you some fun stuff after you've finished your OW training. Nothing more.....

Going with that idea...I took a wreck course last November and dive one for my course, was the dive for the AOW Adventures in diving elective...and it was (as you said) looking at a wreck. The guy that was on the AOW course that day did wreck and boat as his electives. Sorry that's a bit weenie for "advanced" Sure it was an "adventure" it was "experience" but did both of those make him a "better, more advanced" diver? nope.

"Adventures in Diving" is a cool concept, but as a vehicle for advanced certification I think it's not optimum. I think it should exist as it is, and BE a catalyst for different experiences.

Two points....

1. GO and read your OW manual again.... particularly the section that explains the system of adventure dives, AOW and speciality courses. For god sakes...you even had to answer a knowledge review question about it ?!?! Surprise, Surprise....an adventure dive IS the first dive from the corresponding speciality course. The exact same. Whilst you've got your Open Water manual open...you may also benefit from re-reading the section that explains the purpose and benefits of the AOW course.......it clears this silly debate up nicely.

2. AOW is an abbreviation of Advanced OPEN WATER. It is an 'advancement' from Open Water. It is an addendum to an Open Water course. It is not not not not not not not not not not an Advanced DIVER course! It will not make you expert... or even 'experienced'. It shows you a little more than you learnt as an OW diver... just a little more...and you have someone knowledgeable with you to hold your hand - which is nice.....

Jeez... it really makes me laugh when people can only read one word out of three....

It was interesting to read the post above by Bouyant1 about the first dive on the Wreck Diver Speciality course as being the same dive as the "Adventure" Wreck Dive on the PADI AOW course - ie. going down and looking at a wreck.

Why is that interesting? You do get taught on OW that this is the case.... Another person who knows a lot, but as forgotten what they learnt on OW training?

There is a lot of talk about how the AOW is just a bit too soft for the label "advanced".

Ooooh.... 'Advanced'. Sounds veeeerrrryyy sexy! Try reading the other two words in the certification title...

I am going through various speciality courses over the course of this summer to get my PADI Master Scuba Diver rating (qualification junkie), and I have to say, the majority of those have struck me so far as pretty danged soft themselves. I appreciate it is all recreational diving and not technical diving or anything terribly hard core, but if MSD is supposed to be the pinnacle of non-professional recreational diving education, you would have thought that there would be a bit more to it.

Nope... getting the diving basics right is quite enough for you.

What are you expecting? Here's what you need to be a great diver.....

1. Good buoyancy and trim.
2. The ability to plan dives within limits.
3. The ability to follow that plan by monitoring depth and time.
4. The ability to recognise and respond to certain diving maladies (narcosis).
5. The ability to utilise additional equipment (torch, compass etc).
6. The ability to rescue or assist another diver (plus 1st aid skills).

MSD says that you've had ample training to do all of that stuff...plus you have a minimum experience level (as dictated by the dive requirement).

Will it make you a 'diving god'? Feck off... you're dreaming!

- Deep Speciality Dive #3, examing the effect of depth on colour changes, and do a 7 minute simulated emergency decompression stop.

...at 40m, with an experienced instructor who will hold your hand you whilst you gain real experience with issues such as; accelerated air consumption, diminished no-deco times and nitrogen narcosis. Oh yes...and you'll be developing your overall experience in progressive depths under supervision. Oh yes...for the first time you'll be learning how to control ascent rates using the 'hand-over-hand' method. Oh yes...and for the first time you'll get to practice assembling, positioning and breathing from an emergency air source. Oh yes, and you'll be getting more training in dive discipline...stricter dive planning and stricter adherence to that dive plan on the dive.

Sounds like a pretty useful diving experience to me....

Oh... and there is no such thing as a 7 min emergency deco stop....best check your manual AGAIN....

- Night Speciality Dive #2, demonstrate hand signals, navigate your way back to the exit point with at least 500 psi remaining.

Again...more dive discipline. More experience with signalling techniques in low viz situations.

Combined with the Deep spec, we seem to have the makings of a far more independent and focused scuba diver. In the two dives (just two dives) that you have mentioned, we can actually see a lot of the skill pre-requisites needed for real advanced diver training (deco diving)....

It's all just a little bit soft given the press that PADI give it (Join the best of the best in recreational scuba diving. ... Do it by becoming a PADI Master Scuba Diver – a rating that puts you in a class of distinction).

Is it soft... or is it just that you were clueless of what you could have been getting out of the courses?

I am sure Ice Diver and Cavern Diver courses must be pretty hard core, but the rest of them, well, I don't think they make you a master of much other than your own cheque book.

Well yes.... they sound very sexy and advanced. They might even allow you to wear some black diving gear...and that'd be even more sexy......

 

[Randy43068]

Interesting indeed.

No mention of TEAM SKILLS whatsoever. Did I miss that, or is it not there?

 

[Blackwood]

As for AOW being a prerequisite for leadership or tecrec paths... such a claim is really scrapping the barrel of gross distortion.

You make it sound as if I'm intentionally distorting the information. I'm not. I have no affiliation with PADI; I'm a consumer, and I read its descriptions with neither inside information nor bias.

I'm not distorting. I may be misinterpreting, but believe that the way it represents itself invites such a misinterpretation. I note that it makes no attempt to correct the almost industry-wide misconception about its AOW program, be it in the form of operations who require AOW for "advanced dive sites" (like Farnsworth Banks here in socal), Dive Shops who sell it as something that it's not, etc..





Again, I'll point out that this entire 18 page thread hinges almost entirely around semantics. Unfortunate word choice. That's it.

 

[DevonDiver]

Nope...there are no 'team skills' on any PADI recreational course. That only starts on page 51 of the DSAT Tec Deep manual....

I'll quote the first chapter from that page....

The Team Concept

One of the first things you learned as a recreational diver is that you dive with a buddy. And as you recall, you can do this for reasons that include safety advantages, practicality and to have more fun.

Tec diving takes the buddy system to the next emphasis level with the team diving concept. What team diving means is that you embrace and apply the philosophy that tec divers work as a team, integrating each team members needs and efforts into pre-dive checks, meeting equipment requirements, planning and executing the dive, and other details, while pursuing a common goal. As a team, you must treat the dive as a mission with specific purpose the team pursues together with a common goal, rather than just as an "underwater visit".

So, again, there is nothing new for an AOW or MSD to learn about buddy skills...they have learnt (and maybe forgotten) everything they needed to know about them on their OW training. Of course, a good instructor would make sure that such practices are reinforced on every subsequent training dive.

As for team diving... a recreational diver is unlikely to have need of this concept - unless they wanted to pursue specific 'missions' on their dives and had to co-ordinate equipments, gases and other aspects prior to and on the dive.

Oh...and please lets not turn this into a DIR debate

 

[DevonDiver]

You make it sound as if I'm intentionally distorting the information. I'm not. I have no affiliation with PADI; I'm a consumer, and I read its descriptions with neither inside information nor bias......

Again, I'll point out that this entire 18 page thread hinges almost entirely around semantics. Unfortunate word choice. That's it.

It's not an affiliation thing...but, in my experience, it can be an ego thing.

You are very correct, it is a question of semantics... but those semantics are entirely rooted in a misunderstanding of the three words 'Advanced Open Water'. As I've said, some people can only seem to focus on the first of the three words (hence this thread!).

You are also correct to state that, in some ways, it is the dive industries' fault that this misconception occurs. Many instructors and schools abbreviate the full certification title and simply refer to it as the "advanced course". I doubt that this is deliberate mis-advertising... just laziness and lack of thought for the consequences.

I also agree that it is unfortunate to put the word 'advanced' anywhere near a course at that stage in a diver's development. A far better title for the AOW course would be the "not quite so much of a numptie" course... but it doesn't have the same ring to it does it?

However, the situation still remains that every OW diver is taught about the AOW course and what it's benefits are. If we didn't forget that basic teaching, we wouldn't have this confusion either.

At the end of the day....an AOW diver is still an Open Water diver (yes, those words are in the certification title too!). More emphasis on those words certainly puts things into better perspective.

 

[String]

Rename it to "Open Water Module 2" and that'd stop these monster threads.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Nope...there are no 'team skills' on any PADI recreational course. That only starts on page 51 of the DSAT Tec Deep manual....

I'll quote the first chapter from that page....

The Team Concept

One of the first things you learned as a recreational diver is that you dive with a buddy. And as you recall, you can do this for reasons that include safety advantages, practicality and to have more fun.

Tec diving takes the buddy system to the next emphasis level with the team diving concept. What team diving means is that you embrace and apply the philosophy that tec divers work as a team, integrating each team members needs and efforts into pre-dive checks, meeting equipment requirements, planning and executing the dive, and other details, while pursuing a common goal. As a team, you must treat the dive as a mission with specific purpose the team pursues together with a common goal, rather than just as an "underwater visit".

So, again, there is nothing new for an AOW or MSD to learn about buddy skills...they have learnt (and maybe forgotten) everything they needed to know about them on their OW training. Of course, a good instructor would make sure that such practices are reinforced on every subsequent training dive.

As for team diving... a recreational diver is unlikely to have need of this concept - unless they wanted to pursue specific 'missions' on their dives and had to co-ordinate equipments, gases and other aspects prior to and on the dive.

Oh...and please lets not turn this into a DIR debate

It all depends on the conditions you're diving in.

Where I dive, due to typically low vis conditions, we emphasize many team concepts starting in OW class ... because if you manage to swim more than 2 or 3 meters from your dive buddy you may not see him again until you reach the surface.

We also tend to emphasize dive planning skills a bit more heavily than your typical recreational area might ... because we don't have divemasters here to lead people around. If you're gonna dive here, you need to know how to plan and execute your own dive without relying on someone else for assistance.

I don't see that any of that stuff has anything to do with DIR, specifically ... didn't you say you quoted it out of a PADI DSAT manual?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[porsc]

wow! these threads blow up fast!!! i have read most of the thread, and i agree and disagree with several of the post's.
so, to add my very short opinion to this mammoth discussion, i will just say this.
first, the aow class is only a step up from the ow class. it is not a class for advanced divers, conversely it is a class to aid a diver in becoming more advanced, than that of an ow diver.
second, in my opinion, peak performance buoyancy should be compulsory, more so than any other. good buoyancy is an important part of every dive, and therefore a vital skill that i see horribly neglected way too often. i have taught all around the world, currently in samoa, and that is the skill that i most often see divers lacking in. it also plays a direct roll in gas conservation.
nav would be second most important in my opinion, because not knowing where you are uw, and how to get back to where you started is also extremely vital. it plays a big roll in safeguarding the safety record of scuba diving around the world.
deep and night, i put into the same category. if people choose to go on a night dive, or to dive deeper than 18 meters, then those are great classes to have under your belt. both give you something different than normal diving, and can expand a divers skill set.
finally, i will respond to a post well back in the thread, that put photography in the same category as the boat diving course. that is one of the single most ignorant post's i have ever read! don't speak of what you know little of, because it makes you sound very ignorant. uw photography is a very difficult skill to master the very basic's, let alone trying to enhance it. and i would say that it is far more difficult than any of the other aow courses. people spend their entire diving career trying to develop good uw photography skills. so, try to do a little research before just throwing something out there. cheers!

 

[bfw]

As for AOW being a prerequisite for leadership or tecrec paths... such a claim is really scrapping the barrel of gross distortion. AOW is a prerequisite for rescue. Rescue is THEN a prerequisite for leadership level.

His point still stands. If it's a prerequisite for ANYTHING that means one of two things:

a) they hold it to impart some valuable skill or ability that equips one to succeed in the subsequent course.

b) it's a shameless and transparent ploy to get another PIC fee out of people.

Now, which would be more pejorative?