Redundant air sources and the new diver

[sabbath999]

The problem is that, among the skills that new divers often don't come away with are the skills to keep a buddy team together, and the skill to initiate and maintain an air-share through a controlled, calm ascent. But you are right; rather than move to an independent, redundant gas source, new divers should practice the skills they need to be safe as a buddy team.

Additionally, many people dive with insta-buddies who have "heaven-only-knows" buddy skills... just because you splash with somebody that is "supposed" to be your buddy doesn't mean that they actually know ANYTHING about diving at all.

How many stories have we all heard about "buddies from hell"?

Back to the original topic... my take on subject is this...

There are MANY good reasons to carry an alternate air source, but providing a crutch to protect the "feelings" of a new diver isn't one of them.

If a new diver feels anxiety and the need for a crutch, then that driver was insufficiently trained in the first place and would be well advised to get some further training or mentoring.

 

[elmer fudd]

I almost wish the OP hadn't mentioned Spare Air - they are too easy to make the target, rather than addressing the more general question about redundant air sources in general.

To be honest, I don't think there is any "right answer" here. Personally, I think that any diver needing a "placebo" to make them feel good whilst diving simply hasn't mastered the basic diving skills to the degree where they should be conducting independent dives. I've taught OW courses in three days, and I've taught OW courses in ten days. The latter students were much better prepared and would have no need for a redudant air source. The other students probably had a need - but wouldn't have had the competence to use one appropriately.....

Saying that, I can see situations where a redundant air source may be wholly appropriate - even for new divers. For example, cold water environments where a reg with two divers breathing off it may be more prone to free flow, particularly if a new diver has bought a budget reg. In that situation, you may have planned your gas to allow two divers to share gas to the surface - but the free flow would mess with that.

Let's take this idea a little bit further. Say for example you were diving a single tank, no pony, no buddy and no octopus. IOW, no redundancy whatsoever and you're doing it between 80 and 100 feet. I'm guessing this would make most of us somewhat uneasy. Our heart rate and air consumption would both likely go up and our enjoyment of the dive would likely go down.

Throw in an octopus and a buddy for a little redundancy and a lot of us would suddenly become a lot more relaxed underwater. Some people however might want a little more reassurance. As Sabbath mentioned, insta-buddies aren't always competent divers. I can fully understand someone feeling more comfortable still with a pony bottle.

It's all a matter of degree.

 

[AndyNZ]

Let's take this idea a little bit further. Say for example you were diving a single tank, no pony, no buddy and no octopus. IOW, no redundancy whatsoever and you're doing it between 80 and 100 feet. I'm guessing this would make most of us somewhat uneasy. Our heart rate and air consumption would both likely go up and our enjoyment of the dive would likely go down.

Throw in an octopus and a buddy for a little redundancy and a lot of us would suddenly become a lot more relaxed underwater. Some people however might want a little more reassurance. As Sabbath mentioned, insta-buddies aren't always competent divers. I can fully understand someone feeling more comfortable still with a pony bottle.

It's all a matter of degree.

100% agree - but then most of us are trained (to some degree) with the use of an alternate air source and donating/receiving gas from another diver, so not only does it make us feel more comfortable but it is also a solution that is within our competence.

If you replace the 80+ feet out of your scenario with say 30 feet, I'd have no reservations about diving with no octi, no buddy etc.

For a newer diver, that dive shouldn't be stressing them out - provided that they have a buddy, an octi etc.

To slap on a pony bottle without training in it's use is a daft solution to a problem that is much better solved in other ways. Having the gear, but with no idea of how to use it, isn't preparing anyone for a more relaxing dive. It's actually going to raise the stress levels in the event of an incident because of the confusion over what correct response to take.

Of course, as someone who teaches the use of redundant gas sources of all types, once someone has done the training in how to use one (e.g. pony bottle), they normally end up much more competent in "incident management" to the point where the need to carry one almost goes away (within recreational limits).

I guess my standard answer in discussions like this is simply "there are no absolutes". People searching for absolutes tend, in my experience, to always end up disappointed.

 

[Thalassamania]

Let's take this idea a little bit further. Say for example you were diving a single tank, no pony, no buddy and no octopus. IOW, no redundancy whatsoever and you're doing it between 80 and 100 feet. I'm guessing this would make most of us somewhat uneasy. Our heart rate and air consumption would both likely go up and our enjoyment of the dive would likely go down.

Throw in an octopus and a buddy for a little redundancy and a lot of us would suddenly become a lot more relaxed underwater. Some people however might want a little more reassurance. As Sabbath mentioned, insta-buddies aren't always competent divers. I can fully understand someone feeling more comfortable still with a pony bottle.

It's all a matter of degree.

Being able to make a confident and comfortable free ascent solves the entire issue.

As far as diving with no redundancy, take away the SPG too and that's how a lot of us dove for many, many years ... and never felt uneasy. Why? We could all make a confident and comfortable free ascent; hell ... we made one at the end of many of our dives.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

'Cause, taking spare air or a pony when a new diver dives, takes the place of knowledge, training, and underwater awareness? This is really what this guy is saying. If they need a placebo, they need more training and to go back to the pool. They have no business diving unless they can complete the dive planned with their main air and return with 500psi. This guy is either truly misinformed or completely arrogant to think he should spout this at his level of diving.
I feel for anyone who is foolish enough to listen to his drivel.
Advice like this will get someone killed.

And one more thing, you have a pony as a bailout, in case things go very wrong. You don't chase fish and run out air.... You should pay attention to your gauges and Never run out of air for a reason like this. I tell my students that running out of air=stupid. You can have a malfunction of equipment and not have the ability to utilize your breathing system, you can have an equipment failure causing you to lose air too rapidly to reach the surface safely, and THEN you definitely have need of a pony. But you never just run out of air......... That is either bad planning, or poor diving.

 

[AfterDark]

Being able to make a confident and comfortable free ascent solves the entire issue.

As far as diving with no redundancy, take away the SPG too and that's how a lot of us dove for many, many years ... and never felt uneasy. Why? We could all make a confident and comfortable free ascent; hell ... we made one at the end of many of our dives.

Don't forget the BC also.

Mask,fins,snorkel,wet suit, weight belt, tank, back pack, regulator, depth gauge, watch and compass. That was it.

I use independant doubles for my redundant source. I'm getting to really like them.

 

[windyday2010]

That's might be true. learning properly is an important issue.

 

[AndyNZ]

Being able to make a confident and comfortable free ascent solves the entire issue.

What do you mean by "free ascent", Thal?

I interpret it as a blue water ascent, i.e. no reference. In which case I would add ".... whilst sharing gas" to the end of your statement.

 

[TSandM]

No, I think Thal is referring to what we now call a CESA. It's my understanding that J-valves weren't always reliable . . . so doing CESAs when you ran out of gas wasn't all that rare.

 

[Thalassamania]

A free ascent is also called a "blow and go," a Continuous (or Controlled) Exhaling Swimming Ascent. Lynne is right, J-valves were such a poor approach that most of us used K-valves or simply wired or J-valve in the down position, too many times you reached back and pulled the valve and there was nothing there.

So what did you do? CESA! It was not considered an emergency, it was not considered a big deal, it not even worth mentioning after the dive ... it was expected. Sure regulators were not as good as they are today, and most were unbalanced so they got harder to breathe as the tank pressure dropped, and you could often coax a few breaths out on the way up.