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@stuartv

@cerich A little friendly advice. If you are in an online business selling direct to customers your website is very important and should answer most customer questions and specify why a consumer should purchase your regulators over a more established brand. You don't need to trash anyone just spell out the advantages of your brand. For example, why are your coatings better? The DGX website spells out the difference between your signature (although they do not call them that) line and what they carry. Your website does not. Your description of your wing is laughable. You do not say want material the outer or inner shell is and you have one testimonial saying it is something else. Again, you are direct to consumer so these questions should be answered. I noticed the same thing when you were with HOG.

@LandonL I have no idea what your business model is, or the cost structure of your product. But I do know if someone buys another product you make nothing. Walmart does well catering to the low-price crowd, while other retailers are suffering badly. When I tell my students that Sears was once the largest retailer in the U.S. until they were surpassed by K-Mart, they look at me in disbelief. What happened to them and how did Walmart get so big?, price first and service second. I am not sure what service you are selling. It is a regulator, it should work, period. So what service do I need? How do you do it better than DRIS, LP, CA, DGX, or other reputable online shops? Also you may want to poll this, but I would think that most people do not look at servicing cost when purchasing a regulator. I would guess that budget is much more important. HOG caused a splash because they were significantly less expensive then other brands. Since they raised their prices several years ago I don't hear them mentioned as much anymore.

Every manufacturer/retailer is looking for that customer that values "something" over price. What is the percentage of these customers in the scuba marketplace? How are you going to attract these customers over more established competitors with deeper pockets? If that something is service then how are you going to compete against a competent dive shop?

Thanks, I agree that the website does need more work, the wing in particular.
The DGX description of the differences is actually what I wrote, I don't have the DGX reg on my website thus why I don't compare to it. I did post that here on Scubaboard and also Facebook when the DGX came out and some folks had questions as to how they were different. That said the DGX is by us (deep 6), doing a comparison to every reg out there is not workable in any manner. I do believe that we have done a fairly OK job explaining the unique aspects of our regs. This thread evolved into demanding we do a direct comparison to the Dive Rite regs, we aren't going to.
Regarding your comments on the wing, there is not one to be called a description. Yeah we did that bad a job listing the wing. How you can conclude that a customers review (testimonial) "says something else" is beyond me, we didn't say anything other than the lift capacity and wing. To you noticing the same when I ran HOG, HOG wasn't direct to consumer, we went thru dealers. That all said, your point has validity and I will work on doing better.

Now to your comments to Landon on price and business model, as that is my wheelhouse allow me to reply. Of course price is a huge factor, massive, especially in volume and commodity items. The truth is that even non volume, non commodity items have been margin compressed by the Internet. However, in regards to Deep 6, the idea that we are too expensive in the marketplace and we need to be cheaper, I disagree. Firstly, we are less than virtually any mid-high end regulator by any mid or major brand. The regulator offers features normally only seen on regs 2-3x the price and comes with tangible "extras" that while some may not want or need still have a value to many consumers. (hard box, spare service kits, ability to self service, take the class etc) Let's compare some prices, a Deep 6 Signature 1st and second is $375, a HOG D3 and Zenith 2nd is $479, Zeagle F8 is $499, Apeks XTX50 is $595 and I could go on, except that those regs while more expensive aren't as well finished materials wise, durability wise or performance wise as the Deep 6 Signature regs. Nor are they offered with the extras we provide.

Now to your very last comment, namely "then how are you going to compete against a competent dive shop?"

I hope we can't, I know however that we won't have to very often. The % of competent dive shops is woefully low.

Heck, I wrote a whole blog post asking people to support their LDS, I'm that confident in the low % of competent dive shops.
The hard working local dive shop- support them please. / Deep Thoughts
 
@LandonL I have no idea what your business model is, or the cost structure of your product. But I do know if someone buys another product you make nothing.

Very true, however we prefer customers to be happy with their product purchase, of course we prefer that they buy from us, but that may not always be the best fit. From our standpoint, it is better for a potential customer to buy elsewhere than to purchase our product and be unhappy with it. This is the main drive behind our generous refund policy. We feel our products are great value for the price, and we try to offer what we feel is the best service along with it. We are reasonable guys and will do what we can to make a customer happy, but if that isn't possible we will offer an amicable parting of ways.

Walmart does well catering to the low-price crowd, while other retailers are suffering badly. When I tell my students that Sears was once the largest retailer in the U.S. until they were surpassed by K-Mart, they look at me in disbelief. What happened to them and how did Walmart get so big?, price first and service second. I am not sure what service you are selling.

Walmart does well catering to the low-price crowd, that is their business model. Target however, does not target the low price crowd and is succeeding as well. Many luxury car manufacturers like are leaders in the industry without trying to market themselves to customers only seeking the lowest price. Do you measure their success as inferior because they are not as large as say Walmart, or Ford?

The same could be said for Apple. They produce a product that could hardly be called budget friendly, and charge a premium over similar products from competitors. Indeed Apple is the largest company in the world, surpassing Microsoft in market cap, and still remaining so. How did they do this? It certainly wasn't by trying to compete by providing the cheapest product that was another clone of other computers, laptops, cell phones, media players, etc. Apple created an ecosystem, a system with multiple levels of integration, providing not only the product, but the retail facilities for the product, the service facilities for their product, and an excellent level of customer service. In many cases the internal components were not anything beyond what others offered, it was the usability and service that excelled past their competitors, the extras that defined them. (mainly in OS X integration and seemless use between devices, but thats a different conversation). They were able to achieve this by going above and beyond what others in the industry did, by doing something different, not by copying the same model and trying to do it cheaper. Many of those same principles can be applied across industries.

I am not sure what service you are selling. It is a regulator, it should work, period. So what service do I need? How do you do it better than DRIS, LP, CA, DGX, or other reputable online shops? Also you may want to poll this, but I would think that most people do not look at servicing cost when purchasing a regulator. I would guess that budget is much more important.

We are selling regulators, along with other products, and we do our best to offer what we think are improvements over the general competition, but we are also selling a service, and that service is what we aim to define us. We want customers to know they always have a reasonable solution to get service for their equipment, by either sending to us or using an affiliate demo center or instructor, we want the customer to know we stand behind our product 100% and will refund them if they have a concern. We send them spare parts kits so in an emergency they can get their equipment serviced in a remote location, and will provide the service manual for free, or even technical assistance over the phone. Hopefully you won't ever need these services, but we want to be there to provide them if necessary. On that note, of the above mentioned, CA is one of our Demo Centers, and the partnership has been beneficial to both of us. You are correct, most divers purchase regulators without considering the service cost, but we hope to enlighten them to the benefits during the purchase, and hopefully we will appeal to other divers who are knowledgeable about this cost already. Budget may be important, but isn't the deciding factor for everyone, and we aim to provide as much information as possible about why we can provide a great product at a great price, without being the cheapest.

Every manufacturer/retailer is looking for that customer that values "something" over price. What is the percentage of these customers in the scuba marketplace? How are you going to attract these customers over more established competitors with deeper pockets? If that something is service then how are you going to compete against a competent dive shop?

You are probably correct, that isn't the majority of customers in the scuba marketplace. However that doesn't mean they can't see the benefit once it is presented to them. We hope to attract them to our customer base by what we offer, and if they choose to go another direction, thats ok too. We are the first to tell someone if they have a competent local dive shop, they should support them. We don't want to compete with them, and if anything, we want to form a mutually beneficial relationship with them as a Demo Center. The unfortunate truth is that many dive shops out there today are not what one would consider 'competent'. They take weeks for service, overcharge, attempt to punish customers for purchasing elsewhere, push unnecessary products, etc. These types of practices don't work elsewhere in other industries, and should not in ours as well.

In the end, we may not be the best fit for everyone, but we try our best to offer the best product and service we can. But, if the response for our products, service, and affiliate programs have been any indication so far, we feel we are on the right track.
 
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@cerich The line in the review that through me off was, "The exterior shell is not cordura or a fabric, it’s an almost rubbery feeling material." That begs the question what is it made of? LOL.

I am not asking for a comparison of every regulator on the market, just that you clearly articulate the advantages of your particular product. As a mentioned why are the coatings better than what others do. Also a Teflon coated air barrel may not be a selling point unless you can guarantee the coating will not degrade over time. No one wants to breath Teflon and many have given up non-stick pans.

The other companies may be more expensive (Zeagle has a deal on the F8) but they are also more established. I have seen people scrambling trying to find kits for orphan brands such as Cocharian, Oxycheq, Salvo, OMS, Abyss, etc. Although bigger names, like Dacor, can also go out of business.

I have said many times that the best value in a regulator is always at the mid-point of the manufacturers line. A Legend is not significantly better than a Core, Nor is a XTX-50 significantly better than an ATX-40. Same thing with Scubapro, a MK-25/620 is not going to be significantly better than a MK-17/G260. I would never purchase a top of the line regulator especially the special edition, tactical, stealth, models.

It is your business and you can run it as you see fit but I suggest you try to improve the information content of your website.
 
@cerich

I suggest you try to improve the information content of your website.

I agree. I have a bunch of reasons (read excuses i guess) that it isn't as well fleshed out as I wanted, but with a unexpected heavy summer season, family child out of school stuff, being the only FT person and for sure the only one in the office warehouse alone 98.6% of the time, the website sorta got stuck where it was this spring. I have a FT person joining me in the office that started last week, my daughter is back in school tomorrow and in fact getting some website stuff sorted was before this thread my priority for next week. last week and this was trying to tidy the disaster I made of the warehouse and have a system versus everything in my head
 
@ams511 the teflon issue is only a real problem when exposed to serious heat and is then abraded. A teflon coated barrel in a regulator will be subject to cold, and quite a bit of it. My engineer hat on, it's not something to be concerned with. Do ditch the teflon pans though, ceramic is much better
 
@cerich Also a Teflon coated air barrel may not be a selling point unless you can guarantee the coating will not degrade over time. No one wants to breath Teflon and many have given up non-stick pans.

Good point, the Teflon is actually MUCH, MUCH more durable than a chrome or even PVD coatings. A cooking pan, people are scraping with turners, cooking at high temps and so forth while leaving the food on it. the reg it's just air passing over the surface. the reason i choose it for the second stage barrel is because in cold water any moisture that freezes will not stick to the barrel as well, thus less likely to cause issues. This is a GREAT example of me knowing how the reg works and not even giving the concern you brought up a thought because I know it's a completely different type of application and conditions of use that aren't the same as pots and pans. But yeah, Joe/Jane consumer may not see the difference.
 
@ams511 the teflon issue is only a real problem when exposed to serious heat and is then abraded. A teflon coated barrel in a regulator will be subject to cold, and quite a bit of it. My engineer hat on, it's not something to be concerned with. Do ditch the teflon pans though, ceramic is much better

That may be true, but how is the average diver going to know that? My teflon pans are long gone. There should be something like this:

"We coat our air-barrels with Teflon for superior corrosion resistance and breathing performance. However, you may be concerned about the safety of breathing Teflon. Don't be, because Teflon in a regulator is not subject to the stresses of heat and expansion that a Teflon-coated pan would be. So the Teflon in the air-barrel will not degrade and enter your breathing air."
 
I am not sure what you mean. Is there a dive computer that does what a Shearwater does for less? I remember I think it was X-deep that had the black but that was discontinued.
@ams511 the teflon issue is only a real problem when exposed to serious heat and is then abraded. A teflon coated barrel in a regulator will be subject to cold, and quite a bit of it. My engineer hat on, it's not something to be concerned with. Do ditch the teflon pans though, ceramic is much better
That may be true, but how is the average diver going to know that? My teflon pans are long gone. There should be something like this:

"We coat our air-barrels with Teflon for superior corrosion resistance and breathing performance. However, you may be concerned about the safety of breathing Teflon. Don't be, because Teflon in a regulator is not subject to the stresses of heat and expansion that a Teflon-coated pan would be. So the Teflon in the air-barrel will not degrade and enter your breathing air."
yup, agree. i said that above. I had thought that most folks knew that teflon was a issue with heat and scraping, I knew that wasn't a concern with a regulator, assuming that the average diver knew was a mistake..
 

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