Regulator Annual Service & Maintenance, Sport’s Biggest Scam???

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Maule:
This a joke post? You really whining about paying $50.00ish dollars for servicing a piece of LIFE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT? Geez, I bet you were typing this from a Starbucks where you just spent $10.00 for a cup of coffee too.

Thanks for the flame. I never said I was adverse to spending money. BTW, I can't get regs. serviced here for less than $100. Inspections are $28. Times that by seven sets. I would rather spend the money going to Cozumel if the annual service is not necessary.

I asked for opinions from those that have real knowledge to convey their opinions.

Based on the responses, there is a lot of opinions.

Good Diving,

Dave
 
PhilEllis:
Regulator service interval is a widely discussed subject here in our shop. I will limit my discussion ONLY to the technical aspects of establishing a service interval. The economic aspects of the subject must be addressed by EACH owner.

A scuba regulator is a degrading piece of equipment. By this, I mean that each use of the regulator places a small, almost immeasurable amount of wear on the moving parts. A well cleaned and well maintained regulator can last for YEARS and YEARS between service intervals....some poorly cleaned and poorly maintained regulators should be serviced every three months. EVERY customer thinks they are one of those that take extra precautions and are particularily careful with their equipment. Of course, this is not the case.

When we open a regulator for service, we are often shocked at what we find. Regulators with only a few dives over the past year are often LOADED with plant growth, salt crystals, excessive o-ring and seat wear.....a number of things that validate the service interval. Many other regulators look almost brand new. They could easily go another year, or two, or three. The thing is...we don't know which customer is which. We (nor the manufacturers) have any ability to know how well you will do the user maintenance to your regulator; thus the one year recommendation.

Another issue that the manufacturer considers is maintaining your brand loyality. This is an issue on ANY type of product....they want you to buy their brand when you make a second purchase. With the one-year service interval, they are fairly well assured that any problems will be caught and corrected before you notice any performance drop. This improves your view of the brand and improves the chances that you will choose the brand on future purchases.

Of course, there is also the legal liability....a foolish issue, but I guess that depends on which side of the bar you sit. If they recommend a much longer service interval and are then sued as a result of an accident, a good trial lawyer can make the manufacturer look pretty foolish, and therefore pretty guilty. They obviously don't want this.

The bottom line is simple.......it's YOUR regulator - you choose the service interval. The manufacturer prefers one year and to induce you to agree, they offer free parts. But you are still free to choose any service interval you choose. I also agree with Mike...you should also be free to service your own regulator if you choose and parts should be available to you if you make that choice.

A couple of side notes: I see tons of complaints about regulators failing (mostly free flowing) immediately after service. This is due primariy to failure to properly cycle the regulator after service to remove the new material set from the seat/HP valve interface. In our store, we hardly EVER have anyone come in for additional adjustments after service. I would guess far less than 1 regulator in 100. The other issue is the cost. We charge $60 labor for in-house service for the three stages. A good regulator technician will spend about 1 hour on a regulator for disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, and testing. Of course, a poorly trained technician can do it all in about 20 minutes. We are hardly making a TON of money on service as many on this board often boast. When we add all of the costs, it is far less profit than it should be. I would guess that our shop makes a net profit of about $16 on that service.

Another issue: As many of you know, I have a TON of issues with how this industry works. But to be honest, I can't think of one "rule" designed to "line the store owners pocket" with money. Not regulator service interval, not cylinder visual inspection. No, I can't think of ONE thing that exists for that sole purpose in all of the scuba industry. Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

This is the type of well thought out, and well said, response I hoped to receive.
 
alo100:
I don't want to give out my personal opinion yet, because I am not an expert.
Still, I wanted to quote something:

Some related readings from a UK dive magazine

"Call for better regulator servicing"

Britain's Diving industry has to response to the recent Health & Safty Executive (HSE) report. HSE evaluated equipment related to the fatal dive accidents between 2000 to 2003 in UK. 28 out of 60 regulators, after the accidents, have failed the European test, due to corrosion, incorrect setup and lack of correct servicing.

The articles briefly mentioned the normal procedure which would take at least 3 days, please refer to the original article if you are interested in knowing more detail. In Europe, they are aware of the issue, and their decision is to make the standard high.

I guess when the worst happens a regulator in poor condition is contributing almost half time. At least in the UK.
 
awap:
I'm not a professional, but I have been DIY reg service for the last 7 years. I am currently maintaining 8 regs for regular service plus a few others that I cleaned up and put away. I am convinced that, with good user service a reg can go 2 to 5 years between a major service. But it is still desirable to inspect, clean & lub as necessary, and adjust to maintain adequate performance. If a salt water diver fails to soak out the salt, encrustation and corrosion may not just damage o-ring but critical seating surfaces also. Generally speaking, the "annually replaced" soft parts and seats will last and provide adequate performance for much longer than a year. If you are going to extend the service interval, I suggest http://airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html and an IP guage. That is also a great start if you decide to go the DIY route.

This is what my experiance has been. Inspection/Check at least every year. Service and rebuild as needed. I also always have my eye for what new products are available. Maybe something will tempt me before I need the rebuild.
 
Hello every one!!!

New to the forum and this is my first post on any of the threads. Been following this discusion and others like this. This sounds like the discussions I have with my fellow divers here at home.

Both sides seem to have such a great argument, but I must say that I lean a lot further to the DIYers. I am very mechanically inclined and wish to service my own regs as well. I have Vances book on order and have been reading what I can get my hands on about regs. The problem that I find and what seems to be the consensus is the lack of ability to get the parts and manuals.

Well, the thought that I have had is if we need to be certified techs to do the work, why can't the manufacturers open the doors to their courses? Allow those that wish to become techs pay for the course and work on their own gear??? Not only does the manufacturer benefit from those that want to pay for the course but, those that can service there own gear will want to buy more from the company that allows them to service there own regs!!

I mean think about it, not every one that dives wishes to work on there own gear! Most people don't have time. (Why do you think we will pay twice as much for some one to change our oil for us instead of doing it ourselves???) I think that by opening the doors for those that wish to do it will have very little impact on the LDS's. And the companies will no longer have to worry about being sued if you are "Qualified" to service their brand of regs!!!!

To me the answer to all of this is very simple and I believe that the first step has to be made by the manufacturers. Give us the chance to get "Qualified" and they will not have to worry about law suits...............

Just my opinion
 
If you want to service your own gear buy from a manufactuer who will sell to DIY's.
Abyss Dive Systems, Apollo Sports USA, Ameri-Sea and I believe Dive Rite.
 
stevead:
As has been mentioned any good regulator that is well cared for will absolutely give several years of dependable service before giving any problems. What I haven't seen anyone mention is that the annual service, just like the oil change in a car is PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE . We get them checked out/tuned up/ overhauled, before there is a statistical likelyhood of failure. If you are willing to accept an increase in failure rate feel free to use whatever service interval or disposable reg scenario you like.

I think this logic is a bit flawed. I go to my LDS and the same person, the owner, works on my regs and I have never had a problem. I believe NOT having your equipment checked presents a higher statistical chance of failure the longer you go past recommended service intervals. Obviously if you have an idiot working on your stuff your mileage may vary.
 
Went into a LDS the other day and they had just placed a new sign at the service counter that read "New shop regulator overhaul rate $60", not including parts if not part of the manufacture parts warranty. I don't use this dive shop often so not sure what the previous rate was.
 
The first time that I took my Saab ( Poseidon Cyklon ) in for service, I was charged $150. That didn't bother me so much as that it was itemized as $25 parts and $25 labor on each stage. I know that I can get the o rings (service kit) for the seconds for $14. So that made me mad. Last time, into a different shop, I had rebuilt the 2nds and took in the first for a tune up and oil change. The piston was almost rusted shut. Cost me a $115 to clean up that mess. ($68 an hour plus parts)

I THOUGHT THAT I TOOK GOOD CARE OF MY REGS.

I feel that maintaining your own regs is a combination of some skills, some smarts and some experience. If you lack any one, you might leave it to the pro's. That being said, find some pros that you trust and are fair.

adios don O
 
SterlingDiver:
I guess when the worst happens a regulator in poor condition is contributing almost half time. At least in the UK.

That's not what that said! It said that after the accident the regs did not meet the standards for a new reg, Nothing is said about contributing factors. It's like saying that n% of all car accidents involve a car with less than half the tread left on the tires.
 

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