Ron Lee's Personal Rules for Diving in Cozumel

[Lorenzoid]

Woweee, this thread has gone off into the absurd since I last stopped by. A guy makes clearly well-intentioned suggestion and people rip it apart just because it had some undertones that could be interpreted as paternalistic or sexist. The few women who have chimed in seem to find the suggestion that men look out for their well being charming.

The OP's remarks didn't seem alien to me. When I moved to the South, I soon noticed how men here would often show an almost comical (to me) amount of courtesy to women--real pre-"women's movement" stuff--and the women here receive it with grace and nonchalance.

 

[drrich2]

This brings up, again, a question that only Ron can answer. It's been pointed out that in today's social/political climate, Ron's post was (to many people) obviously going to trigger just the sort of response that it has.

I suspect he knew this when he wrote it.

The question is, did he?

If so, then he's not being 'picked on,' but rather watching unfold events he knowingly set into motion.

Richard.

 

[BlackPatch]

I am a guy.

I have a none diving Girlfriend. She is glad to have me out of the house as it gives her a chance to do more stuff instead of me suggesting rubbish stuff to do.
She is the single most strong willed woman that I know, and god only knows why, but she puts up with me. She is awesome.

I have limited dive experience, I have no shame in saying that.
I am ex forces and KNOW woman are fully capable of getting the job done.
Do I look out for Women more than Men? Negative.
Do I want a good buddy? Affirmative.
Do I dive with Women regularly? No, purely because I don't really know any diving girls.
Would I be Happy to have a Female Dive Buddy over a Male Dive Buddy? Affirmative. Women tend to take in small details that Men overlook.

Regardless of who looks out for me Pre Dive,Whilst Diving and Post Dive,as long as they are competent and have the correct mindset and Skill set, Male or Female, feel free to look after me. I will repay the favour. Plus Alison says I have a nice Bum

I couldn't give a toss if you are a man or woman as long as the Mindset and Skill set are in place, then I don't care about gender. I will help you if YOU need it and I expect the same.

In my, albeit limited experience, Guys tend to get themselves into trouble more than Gals, Guys tend to push it too far and wind up paying the price.

 

[fred3798]

Ok we've gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Can we be done ? Lets all try to be hepful, yet liberated and libertarian, and watch out for anyone in our diving groups we wish to watch out for. (I suspect that properly written that should have been "..watch out for anyone in our diving groups for whom we wish to watch out" but I prefer being understandable rather than pedantic and I am sure that some cunning linguist will now chime in to impress us all with his or her cunning or his or her linguistics or both).

 

[mala]

i think a lot of inexperienced divers would happily listen to others that are qualified to give advice.

 

[morecowbells]

On several occasions I have had divers in the group(not always, most usually a male) who like to hover 10-20 feet about the group that they "can keep an eye on everybody". Although I appreciate such benevolence I think this is often done so that their air consumption appears more efficient than the other divers. I cannot begrudge them this act, to each his own. There are good and sucky divers inclusive of both sexes. I tend to keep an eye on the cocky and over confident diver whether it is a male or female. I think they are the biggest threat to following the basic rules of safety.

 

[judydivescoz]

This is has gone from a bad to bordering on insane. The OP does come across as a bit sexist and condescending but that's OK. He was not mean spirited in his intentions. I agree with a few others in thinking that Ron knew what kind of reaction his post would bring. He posts often here and at TA so he knew that he would get some attention. Whatever makes him happy.

 

[Mike]

This brings up, again, a question that only Ron can answer. It's been pointed out that in today's social/political climate, Ron's post was (to many people) obviously going to trigger just the sort of response that it has.

I suspect he knew this when he wrote it.

The question is, did he?

If so, then he's not being 'picked on,' but rather watching unfold events he knowingly set into motion.

Richard.

Hmmmm.... is this really Ron?

 

[ggunn]

Gordon, if you can keep your head while all those around you are losing theirs, then . . .you clearly don't understand the situation.

My head... my head... it's around here somewhere... I just saw it a minute ago...

---------- Post added January 23rd, 2013 at 05:50 PM ----------

My, my! That is a classic example of an ad hominem attack! Rather than talking about the issue, this kind of reply works towards derailing a discussion (generally by the one losing the debate) through a strategy of calling into question the character of the opponent (generally the one winning the debate).

Why have I focused on wording? Because that's how humans communicate--not by telepathy. You claim that "the original intent of that statement has been left in the dust." How would anyone know that, based on what was written? They wouldn't! That's all we have to go by, after all; words do matter. It happens that the words used in Ron's Rule #1 express a viewpoint that many disagree with. I don't think a single person said they were "grievously offended" by the message behind Ron's words, simply that they disagreed with his viewpoint, which is their right. There's no call to suggest that those who disagree are misguided fools choosing their battles unwisely, focusing on inconsequential issues, and squandering their effort. Doing so amounts to no more than an ad hominim attack.

Seriously. Ron's Rule #1 is questionable.

If you think that was an ad hominem attack, you have clearly never posted on Usenet.

 

[robbcayman]

Ron Lee's homework....

---------- Post added January 23rd, 2013 at 09:37 PM ----------

Anywho.. I tried being sexist to my wife when we first got married..