Running out of air- a perspective

[Tortuga68]

Read his other posts

 

[phasechange]

Being a new diver I may look at the data in a slightly different way. I see a lot of issues that should be addressed even before the dive begins. These would not diminish the responsibility to manage your air supply but may reduce after effects:


The issue that sticks out to me is the surface issues:
--- 25% encountered their difficulty first on the surface (why not call the dive)
---50% did not inflate their buoyancy vest (trying to conserve air ???)

(8%) died trying to snorkel on the surface, attempting to conserve air
No dive plan that I have seen or have heard anyone talk about includes calculating reserve air (in addition to the 500psi return setpoint) for surface conditions.
How many on this board have ditched their snorkel?????

40% of divers who perished were found to be grossly overweighted at the surface
Pre dive weight checks (they take time that no one wants to do on dive day -- just throw more weight on mentality.)

Ditching of Weights -- This was omitted by most victims (90%).
it is unclear from the report how many of the deaths could have been avoided at the surface if the person just ditched the weights before trying to swim to safety on the surface?

 

[Tortuga68]

25% encountered their difficulty first on the surface (why not call the dive)

I think the 25% includes surfacing after the dive

How many on this board have ditched their snorkel?????

I ditched mine straight after OW

 

[falcon125]

Having just finished my OW training I have to say that my instructors did not downplay the risk involved in running out of air. But they did say "If you run out of air DONT panic. You have options if you stay calm and remember your training.

They did not say "dont worry" they said "dont panic".

I think my training took OOA seriously but focused on the solution and not the problem

Are there any requirments for continued education or currency to keep an OW cert?

 

[Puffer Fish]

Panic, don't panic, there are places you can get yourself into where, if you are out of air, it really does not matter.

Air is the one thing you really need on a dive...it is the one thing you need to make sure you have available to you.

If you have air, if you are relaxed, and if making sure that you stay that way, then all the deaths from running out would not have been there.

A good number of surface issues come from exhausted divers, loosing the ability to keep from inhaling water..hard breathing, and even slightly rough seas can be dangerous.

Getting people that are struggling to get back to a boat to ditch gear, or relax and just wait for the boat to come and get you is one of the hardest things to do.

I teach that air is the most important thing you have with you.

Having just finished my OW training I have to say that my instructors did not downplay the risk involved in running out of air. But they did say "If you run out of air DONT panic. You have options if you stay calm and remember your training.

They did not say "dont worry" they said "dont panic".

I think my training took OOA seriously but focused on the solution and not the problem

Are there any requirments for continued education or currency to keep an OW cert?

 

[greta-inbaja]

Alert Diver had a good article on Situational Awareness. It's a must read for inexperienced divers and a good review for one that has been out of the water for a while. If situational awareness was drilled into our heads regarding everyday life we would all be better off. To evauate the situation you are about to put yourself and others into. To drill into someones head that they are not the only person affected my their actions. Not just in diving. I live in the sierra nevada. Why do people hike into the mountains when there is a well broadcasted storm comming. A couple a people die every season. People take their boats out knowing a storm is due. These are no different than running out of air. We were on a boat and had the same guy run our of air 2x. WHen my husband asked him if he knew what happens if you run out of air, the guy said "no, what". My husbands response was 'You drown stupid" Sometimes I think we might me to gentle in communicating risk. Teaching proper low-air and out-of -air skills it great, but some people don't get anything but the direct approach. Using the word "die", you are a mammal if you run out of air underwater you may die. People don't like that work. Also, not infating the bc?? or not ditching wt? Thats panic. I think some people just have a higher capacity for handling hairy situations than others, and all the teaching in the world will not correct that. Then we always have ego, as said in a previous post, sometimes you just have to call the dive, sometimes you are the airhog of the group, sometimes the dive your buddies are planning... you just have no busines participating in. a little humility is always better than a tragedy. Once again, a hard lesson to teach.

 

[DevonDiver]

They did not say "dont worry" they said "dont panic".

That was nice of them. It's a good theory. But did they actually discuss with you how you should prevent panic?

Telling someone not to panic is technically correct, but without any stress management training to support it, it is pretty useless advice. It's pretty hard to over-ride the natural human instinct for 'flight or flight'. Bolting to the surface in mindless panic tends to be the natural human reaction when deprived of air whilst submerged. Overcoming your natural instincts takes a lot of training, situational comfort and mental preparation.

 

[Tortuga68]

It's pretty hard to over-ride the natural human instinct for 'flight or flight'

Fight?

Are there any requirments for continued education or currency to keep an OW cert?

No, but if you don't dive regularly and have a log to show it, then some dive ops may insist you go for a 'check out dive' with a DM/Instructor before they'll let you loose

 

[sitges]

I believe the problem is in the lack of proper training by the instructors. Oboy theres a can of worms opening. I had a relative who took diving lessons some thirty years ago, who told me horror stories of what the instructors did to you in order to become certified. When I first wanted to take lessons and was making inquiries I was told "we will teach you survival". So time came I took the course, was prepared for what I knew was coming........but alas okay you're certified.......Huh? Yes I did all the skills, but in a controlled atmosphere, sure I could take my mask, regulator, etc. off and replace it, but on my terms. I expected my DI to rip it off/out when I least expected it. You know like would happen in real life. To gauge a "real" reaction, or how easy is it to help or be helped to share air when you both know its coming.
I believe its an okay lets certify everyone, not piss anyone off and give them their cards and bring in the next class. Ka-ching..
How can you react to any emergency situation if you don't know how "you" would react in an emergency situation. This is a MAJOR shortcoming on course leaders.
During a recent pool fun dive I was curious what it was like to actually run out of air. In a safe environment I intentionally let my air lapse. I only knew it would but not when. Only 12 feet down when it did happen it was an experience that had to be experienced. All the dvd's or pamphlets were no substitute for the actual feeling. A feeling you don't want to experience 30+ feet down. However the experience was priceless. Kind of a "scared-straight" scenario, that there is no substitute for. DIs need to stop coddling their students, it could kill them screw political correctness.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

There is a lot wrong with the mathematics/statistics in the article. The author needs to redo it to get people to focus on the interesting issue, which is "how can we reduce SCUBA fatalities?"

I'd like to suggest that everyone read the statistics in the study that Osric posted: STATS. What is interesting to me is how many divers are over-weighted (again no surprise), and how many died at the surface. If you look at the root causes it paints a picture not only of divers who ran low/out of air, but then did not know how to deal with it. Not dropping weights on the surface was a huge contributing factor.

This is not an "experience" issue: there were 1/3 new, intermediate and experts in this study. Excessive depth only played a part in 12% of the death according to the study.

It is striking to me that what deaths there are can be identified and that they seemingly can be reduced by better education in my opinion. This is not a jab at any one agency, these deaths cover the range of those. And I know there are individual instructors and programs that do an excellent job at teaching and covering these points. We need all of them to.

What about the increased popularity of diving bringing a bunch of people into diving that really shouldn't be diving?

People who are not comfortable being in the water, who are so task overloaded by just breathing, looking at the surface and not floating up to it. What if the reason so many people roto-tiller is not because they got bad training, but because they are constantly looking at the surface due to not really being comfortable underwater, so you have to use a lot of weight 'cause they can't exhale all the way and fin for the surface all the time. Then it's very hard to move in bad trim and they are old and fat and they can't remember to look at their SPG every 5 minutes.

Should the people who perish after running out of air really have even been scuba divers?

For what it's worth, I have run out of air many times.

Back in the j-valve days there were many times the reserve of a 13 cft was not enough to get any where, and there was more than once where the handle was either bumped or not reset so pulling the wire did nothing, but no worry, a reverse free dive while exhaling is not hard, for a water person.

I ran out once in the first 10 dives after modern certification, pushing the bottom of a rental gauge, but we were almost back to shore and only 15 feet deep, and I was expecting it.

And I have done as Dr. Bill, at least as often, trying to get another picture. And I have just stayed down until the reg started to breath hard many times, returning from solo scooter dives.

For a real water person no air in the tank is no biggie, because you knew it was nearly empty and have been expecting it.

Not saying they would forget to look at their SPG, but there are people who are experienced technical divers with lots of successful technical dives, that are fat, or unhealthy, or not really even acceptable swimmers, or mix and match up to all of the above; even some of the people who practice a lot for panic can't always handle real panic!

The people who are "surprised" that they ran out of air are also "surprised" they can't deal with it; surprise, surprise.