Russian Tourist Accident in Thailand.

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adamtodd

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Location
Portland, Oregon, USA
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This is an article from The Nation in Thailand:

Russian tourist cut in half by speedboat's propellers, another missing

Chon Buri - A Russian tourist was cut in half by propellers of a speedboat off Pattaya coast Monday afternoon, police said.
Police said two tourists were hit by propellers of a two-engine speedboat, Kantalak 409, near Koh Larn off Pattaya's coast in Bang Lamung district at 2 pm while the two were scuba diving at the spot.
One of them was cut in half and another went missing.
The two tourists have yet to be identified.


-- The Nation 2010-01-11


I know there isn't really any info about exactly how this happened. It sounds like a horrible event.
 
From local reports, the cutting in half is a major exaggeration. Not sure which is true, but i've frequently found The Nation to be lacking in fact checking.

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/...ed-in-tragic-speedboat-accident-off-koh-larn/

Speed boats have always been my greatest fear diving in Thailand. Hence, always carry two smb's, and always put one up during the safety stop. But teenagers ripping along in daddy's boat with their foakleys and wanna be drug runner look to impress the foreign bikini's, rarely ever know what an SMB signifies.
 
I used to work there and have dived many times on Koh Larn so I know exactly what it's like. It's not the first time somebody has been killed there, and it won't be the last.

Two of the local islands - Koh Sak and Koh Larn - especially the beach of Hat Nuan - are overrun with tourists and therefore speedboats and jetskis (the jetskiiers will use SMBs and CESA buoys as part of their slalom course).

Authorities acted in 2007 (while I was there) when a Thai girl was killed by the prop from a longtail at Hat Nuan. Buoys and lines and restrictions were put in place but rarely enforced.

Some of the people operating out there are running lethally unsafe boats. Overcrowded, insufficient life jackets, no safety procedures, nothing. Just pay your bhat and away you go. There are plenty of safe, well trained, experienced operators, but as with any tourist resort, there's always somebody willing to make a quick buck.

Be safe,

C.
 
I'm not sure if I read it correctly, but that news article seemed to say that the diver was "allegedly" in a marked area reserved for boat traffic and shouldn't have been there. If that's true, then I wonder how they ended up there? Bad advice from locals to suggest that it was a good and legal spot? Poor navigation skills while submerged? Negligence in seeking full information about the area? Willful disregard because there was a reef they wanted to dive?

While there certainly may be unsafe boaters out there, I think it's too early to crucify this one based upon the data presented so far. If anything, the suggestion that the divers were in a restricted area would press for the conclusion that it was the divers who were operating in an unsafe manner rather than the boater. Reading the variety of posts here would have us believe that there are just as many dive shops just looking to make a buck as there are boat operators.
 
seriously - I spent 3 years diving in this area, I know what it's like. The restrictions in place are not always enforced and boats in in the wrong place or divers being in the wrong place is often as much a matter of mis-translation as it is the quick buck.

This accident was simply a matter of time. As I said, it is not the first and won't be the last.
 
So, lay the blame on the society that creates such a mess. Maybe I am just sensitive to the automatic knee-jerk reaction here when a diver and boat come together. The first reaction always seems to be to blame the boater whether there is any data or not. Your first post certainly seems to put the onus on the boater with not a word about the possibility of diver error.

Let's look at incidents with an open mind and judge accordingly.
 
So, lay the blame on the society that creates such a mess. Maybe I am just sensitive to the automatic knee-jerk reaction here when a diver and boat come together. The first reaction always seems to be to blame the boater whether there is any data or not. Your first post certainly seems to put the onus on the boater with not a word about the possibility of diver error.

Let's look at incidents with an open mind and judge accordingly.

Crowley indicates he has freqeuented the area and has witnessed unsafe boating practices with little or no law enforcement present. Why question his eye witness experiences? Particularaly odd in that you are a diver...
 
In most respects, we accept that we are responsible for our safety in the water. We carry backup gear and stay with a buddy to limit the risk that a mistake or gear failure will result in a tragedy under the water. We use things like dive flags and SMBs to protect us near the surface. Most of all, we use our minds to observe and analyze situations so that we can anticipate the potential for trouble and act accordingly. This situation is really no different.

I don't question Crowley's observation at all. The news story suggests that there is an area that is supposed to be restricted to boats only, and that is where this accident occurred. The idea of such a restricted area makes a lot of sense to me.

Crowley tells us:
Some of the people operating out there are running lethally unsafe boats. Overcrowded, insufficient life jackets, no safety procedures, nothing.

As I see it, this is a general condemnation that tells us nothing about this particular incident, unless you think a lack of life jackets led to the diver being struck?

He also says:
seriously - I spent 3 years diving in this area, I know what it's like. The restrictions in place are not always enforced and boats in in the wrong place or divers being in the wrong place is often as much a matter of mis-translation as it is the quick buck.

That tells me that the authorities are doing a lousy job in making it clear who belongs where and slapping wrists when they end up in the wrong places. I suspect that extends to the dive shops and any boat rental shops also failing to make things clear to their customers. This is good general background that explains how a tourist could easily find himself somewhere he doesn't belong.

In this case, it appears the boat operator was a local transporting a bunch of tourists. There are pictures of the boat and the driver as part of the article. To me, the 47 year old operator doesn't look like a teenage wannabe drug runner in daddy's boat, and he isn't wearing sunglasses of any kind. There's also a pic of the police chatting with the three people pictured walking up the beach from the boat. If these were the tourists being carried, then this particular boat doesn't appear to have been particularly overcrowded.

The article says that the operator was being held "whilst a drug and alcohol reading will be performed." I don't know if this means that he will be released and the charges dropped if the tests come back clean, or if the charges will stand either way. I also don't know if this is pro-forma for Thailand, or there is something about this case that suggests a particular responsibility on the part of the driver. There is no mention in the article of an SMB or any other detail about the situation. The pictures also fail to show the area where the accident occurred or give a sense of the number of other boats and divers out there on that day.

I would classify myself as a sportsman who is attempting to be fair-minded. I have driven boats and the idea of seeing a diver a few feet below the surface in a marked channel where no diver should be seems unlikley. Throw in a strong sun and some glare coming off the water, and it's that much harder. While the general concept that some boaters out there operate in an unsafe manner putting divers at risk is strong, I'd rather not apply that to this incident until there is evidence to suggest it is the case. Based upon Crowley's observations, it sounds like it might do more for diver safety for the authorities to get clear on the restricted areas than to crucify one boat driver. Don't get me wrong, though, if the evidence says he ran over a dive flag to hit the guy while washing down another pill with a shot of whiskey, then I'm all for the fullest extent of the law landing on him hard.
 
Good posts - and I am not condemning the boat driver, it may well have been a combination of boat and diver error. I haven't actually read the news article in full - all I am saying is that it has happened before, several times, and unless something changes, it will happen again.

I think you have to experience the area in question to really understand what it's like. This is Thailand, and unless you have been there, it is a million miles away beyond pluto with respect to some of the "standards" we apply in the western world. I've seen boat crews drinking SangSom (Rum) at 7 in the morning (not my shop's boats!!!)

There are plenty of great, safe, dive centres and skippers and boat crews out there - I encourage you all to visit one day, because it's awesome, but one of our boats was moored about 50 metres from where the Thai girl was killed.

Not here to crucify anyone, just saying it happens. The errors that cause the accidents, may be shared equally by all parties or one... I will mail my friends who are still there and try to find out what really happened.

Also - don't let it put you off going. This place is a hotspot for this sort of incident, and therefore sensible diver operators avoid it when it gets too silly to dive there.

Cheers,

C.
 
... all I am saying is that it has happened before, several times, and unless something changes, it will happen again.

There's no doubting that, and I think it's the most important point to be made here.
 
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