Security vs Cost and Bulk

[Tocantins]

More and more as problems with diving buddies ocur, people talk about redundency no longer in terms of the diver-buddie but in terms of self redundency. What is the best system, is an octopus self redundent? Do we need a totally separate equipment like spare air or a pony bottle? Is the double regulator(1st and 2nd stages), single bottle aproach the better of both worlds?
How to dive safe but not starve or get a hernia over it?
What is the most rasonable aproach to diving with a buddie that is a complete stranger?

 

[Iguana Don]

ET,
Now this advice comes from "Just-A-Diver", I'm not an instructor, saturation diver or a technical diver, but here it goes anyway.

I Plan all my dives as if I'm diving solo, that is I don't want to have to rely on my buddy to get me out of a fix, if you will read any of the posts Walter has posted you will understand that your traing & experience are your best buddies. Not that I don't dive with good divers, it's just that I like being prepared. I also prepare myself as if my buddy isn't as prepared as myself, that way I'm ready for almost any situtation.

As for redundant gear, that's a matter of preference, I've heard different stories on the "Spare Air", but I have no experience with it myself. I don't think 2 1st & 2nd stages is necessary, unless you are diving in an overhead environment, THEN IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. These are just my opinions and I'm sure there are others, hope this helps.


But remember: "Your training and experience are your best buddies". Just-A-Diver, 2000

 

[Mario S Caner]

Dive gear is costly, and often bulky... but it keeps us alive. Now we have to talk about adding additional gear which will not only cost more, but it will weigh more as well!!!

Get over it people, once you begin getting into more advanced dives such as deep or wreck diving you will need to configure your gear to meet the needs of the dive. The best redundancy in life support equipement is two seperate regulators. Which means picking up a pony bottle (6,13 or 30 cuft depending on your consumption rate and the scope of the dive) and attach it to your cylinder. A pony bottle costs typically around $85-120. A regulator will run you around $100. It really doesn't need to be a very high end costly unit, just make sure it comes with a lifetime service agreement. Plus the correct hardware to attach it securely to your primary cylinder. In my setup I use an integrated octo/inflator mechanism. Therefore the I attach my regulator from my pony bottle to the usual spot one would attach an octopus to. There is also an analog pressure gauge attached to the pony bottle I picked up at a clearance sale at my local dive shop. It's a very simple yet effective configuration I use often while diving in Southern California. If you'd like I could take a picture and send it to you for reference.

Mario = )

 

[Iguana Don]

Mario,

I knew I could count on you to come in with some good advice, but I think you missed his point, he is asking how to be safe or redundant without having to rely on your buddy. I don't think he's talking about overhead environment diving or he wouldn't be asking that question.

Surely anybody that is thinking about that kind of diving is going to take the time to get the proper training, not just advice from a web page. Not that the adivce here is not the best there is.

By the way in your config. does that device that your pony is hooked up with have a check valve in it. I forgot the name of it but I think I've seen it advertized on the Web.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Don,
Thanks for the approval, though I naturally don't agree about missing the point. The advice and gear configuration I wrote about wasn't necessarily for 'overhead' environments. It's to answer questions about self sufficient diving. You see the system that I use while isn't by any means my own idea, it's what I deamed necessary to do the type of diving that the community would tie me up in the town square and stone me for talking about. Dare I say it... no we'll leave that for another day.

 

[Iguana Don]

Tocantins,

As you can see there are different opinions as to what level of redundancy you may require. Different types of diving also require different types of redundancy. You can ask this question 10 different times & probably get 10 different answers. Hopefully more will respond to this and then you can make an informed dicision.
Hope this helped you in some way, now that we have clouded the air.

But remember: "Your training and experience are your best buddies", no matter what the situtation.

 

[Campana]

Hey guys. Some of you may already know from my posts on the other boards, that I like to experiment with equipment. I am trying for redundancy in all diving. I am rigging my tanks with H valves for separate 1st stages, 2nd stages, and separate guages when using doubles. I just like the idea of having a backup. I do not just mean for overhead environments, I mean all the time. I don't think everyone will make the same choices. The experimental part is trying to figure out the cheapest, most streamlined, and efficient way of achieving redundancy. It's just a fun part of diving to me; messing with my gear. I use two Scubapro Mk20's (not lightweight-too flimsy). a G 500 on a long hose as primary (in my mouth) and a R 380 on a short hose on a bungee necklace right under my chin. The long hose on my 500 makes this the best one to donate, and it gives you 7 feet of space between you and your buddy. I have tested this out a few times and it works fine.

By the way, the R 380 is a great "2nd" and I would pick it for a first. It breathes really easy. They're not making the 500 any more, it has been replaced by the 600, which is basically the same with some materials changes.

Dave

 

[Mario S Caner]

Looks like the gear you use is a winner Dave. I too use the ScubaPro Mark 20 / G500 setup (I have three of them), but also have an Apeks TX100 with the 50 octo, and two sets of Spectrum XR2 regulators. There's no skimping with life support equipment for me. I love the Black Diamond BC, but use a Balance at times as well.

I demand and use the best because often times there aren't any other divers in the vicinity that can lend a hand. I trust in my gear and the training level that I am at. I feel confident when I dive regardless of my gear configuration, because each and every peice of gear I have invested in is high end and very versitle.

 

[Iguana Don]

Hey guys explain this?

I know all equipment manufactures are trying for a piece of the pie, but why in the world would an equipment manufacturer make a 2nd best regulator? I would hate to think I was diving with anything less than the best. I too use the Scubapro Mk20/G500 setup. It's obvious that I'm not corporate minded.
IMHO the termonology we use when we refer to regulators needs to be changed, as we have been using in this post
"LIFE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT", then people will start using the best & we can do away with 2nd best.

 

[Campana]

My G500 was picked to be primary. At the time I bought it, it was the best they made. It has a knob to adjust it to breathe easy without freeflow. The 380 is very similar but has no adjustment. I figured that I would adjust it to not freeflow and that it would be "good enough" for a second. My surprise is that it breathes easier than the 500, and doesn't freeflow much at all. I would be very happy with it for both primary and secondary. I was somewhat surprised since it is not their "top of the line". They also make the 190, the 250, and the 400. Now the G 600 to replace the 500. The 190 is simple and tough, but doesn't breathe as easy. the 250 has the adjustment and breathes great, but is larger than either of mine. I don't know anything about the 400 except it looks funny to me. These regs fit different niches or needs. I think the 190's are great rental, resort, or shallow budget regs. I don't look at them as inferior, just different. Like I have a pickup and a convertable. If I'm hauling lumber, I use the pickup, and if I'm going to an uptown restaraunt, I drive the convertable. (Actually, I drive the pickup there too, but you get the point). One is not better than the other, they're just different.

Also, I can afford the best and plan on keeping it for a long time. Others, like maybe college students, would probably be very happy with a 190, planning to trade up later. But I'm with you--I'm getting the best.

Dave