Shell Collecting/Live Collection/Endangered Species

[ringmod65]

So your collection is "somewhat scientific" because you arrange them in order of where you found them, and if you wanted to you could actually look up their "scientific" names in some kinda sciency thingie?

I've seen more advanced grade school science fair exhibits.

But, whatever creams your twinkie...

_______

Best.

 

[cmburch]

Well "somewhat scientific" may also include date, time, location, weather condition, etc.

"Creams your Twinkie"? Sounds like something a troll would say.

The rules for the Hunting Section say this is a "no troll zone".

 

[g1138]

If it's scientific and it's illegal to collect, get a permit.
If it's not then why are you being so aggressive towards other people's opinions?

If you're not a scientist and you have no actual purpose for the contribution to science
and you're illegally collecting endangered live animals (WHICH would include it's shell)
then your just being opinionated and selfish.

I know this ain't the case for Triton Trumpets in the Caribbean.
But please do tell, what is your scientific purpose for having a shell collection?
And for that matter, what is the reason for needing to collect a live specimen just for it's shell?
Is it the shell that's endangered? Or the invertebrate inside it?

In all honesty I never really got the reasoning from your original post, as to why you collect the shells.
Are you embarrassed when you have to explain to others why you collect shells or live specimens? If so, then maybe you need another reasoning; and don't go making one up.
What I don't understand is why people's first reaction to prying questions is am aggressive backlashing.
Maybe you were fed up and angry when you were posting this so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I do really want to know why you do this. Just for curiosity's sake.

 

[TMHeimer]

Thanks for your responses, good and bad. I admit it was a rant and I was just really angry due to a certain incident when I posted. I posted in Basic, but it was relocated here. Underwater Hunting forum actually had at least the same number of replies for and against me. That would never happen elsewhere or in the real world. The reason I collect shells is it gives me great pleasure to look at these incredibly beautiful objects of nature. And they last forever (if not in direct sunlight). Have been doing it since I was a kid. I appreciate all the input, both good and bad. I am amazed that more divers are not collectors and that beautiful shells seem to not be even on the list of divers' things to see. But, as one pointed out, whatever cranks one's weenie.

 

[g1138]

Hey TMHeimer
I respect your opinion. I personally don't see any thrill in collecting shells. Some times I'll get in the mood of collecting rocks or other things and what not. But it just ends up sitting somewhere in a bag forgotten.

My personal opinion is to not disturb anything living unless I have to for the use in science (I'm a science major =\) or for personal use in food. And even then I should have a very good reason to do this. I would ideally like to see if there were other options as well.

I know you've said it is legal to take Triton Trumpets from the Caribbean, but does it have to be a living one.
I'm not going to argue you about it but I hope you think about these things.
Have fun on your trip.

 

[tyesai]

We collect them, but usually for art projects with the kids or for decorations that the wife makes for the Grandparents. But we just walk the beach, and let the kids play in the surf when it is to cold to swim and gather some up.

 

[TMHeimer]

Almost all shells that are worth "collection" status are taken live. Not all, but most. You will not usually find an empty Triton shell on the beach or snorkelling, even diving. Once the animal dies it's like a house unattended--it will deteriorate. When I did my AOW in FL the shop owner saw the 5 shells I brought up and said I was wrong to keep them. Yet, she had a collection in the LDS from her trip to the islands--great specimens taken live, obviously. Her response was that a fisherman gave her these, and they were already dead. Still can't figure that one out. It was OK for her to have a collection. The criticisms of my use of the term "scientific" are well taken. My hobby has no scientific purpose--the collection is for my enjoyment. Some on other threads have accused me of being a "trophy taker". I have no desire to show off my collection to freinds/guests in the house. My wife has to suggest to them that I show them my collection. I get used to using the term "scientific" because it CAN entice charter ops to view my hobby in a slightly better light. So I scour the Internet for 2 years to actually find a place down there where it is legal to collect and the dive op permits it, and I get remanded for wanting to even take one Tritons Trumpet because they kill Crown of Thorns which in turn kill reefs. I was amazed some diver even KNEW this--guess it just pushed me over the edge. I guess my rant is a result of the fact that I only started diving in '05 at age 51. My career location in Northern Manitoba prevented me from diving locally for like 30 years--there aren't many good freshwater shells in lakes, though there are some. It's so frustrating that we have allowed the decimation of so much aquatic (and other, of course) life over the last few decades. So much so that I am in this position trying to collect a few shells and getting blasted for it. In 1980 someone may say "Oh, that's really a pretty shell. How will you get the thing out of it?" As opposed to now: "You're not gunna kill it, are you"? Hey, I'm just too late with my diving--the World changes.

 

[tyesai]

Out of curiosity sake, when you say you were remanded, was this on the forums or on a dive boat?

 

[cmburch]

Some biologists just freeze them for easy removal. I have found that fresh water shocks them and the muscle tends to loosen for easy removal. Some tie a string to operculum and hang to get the whole animal out before cleaning and cooking.

 

[g1138]

Ok well now I'm going to have to say that your reasoning is not quite justified.
You have admitted to collecting them for pure enjoyment. No harm in collecting shells.
But remember that there are things living in those shells.
I'm not really liking the fact that you refer to them simply as shells.
It's akin to looking at elephants simply as ivory.

Your saying that we are decimating our marine life, which I agree with.
But taking living animals for their shells is contributing to that.
Triton Trumpet do kill Crown of Thorns. If too many die then their populations will decline.
Ever hear what happened when the fur trade wiped out the majority of Sea Otters?
There's a balance to be kept and it can easily tip one way or the other.
There are certain ecosystems that can go into a completely different phase shift and never recover until something completely drastic happens, which takes a long long time to happen.

That owner who got her shells from a local fisherman. If her story checks out then she's probably right. Most gastropods that don't live in the intertidal will probably die of dehydration pretty quickly. So there would be no way for those individuals to survive. Knowing fisherman, it usually takes quite a bit of time to return to harbor.