Should a dive op give you your money back?

[babs]

I am a dive travel agent and I can't speak for other insurance company's but I recommend TravelEx insurance to my clients. I have had several clients that needed becuase of one reason or another and TravelEx has paid my clients back.

I have been delayed in airports loosing a day lodging and diving and TravelEx reimbursed me. It may be an expense but worth it when you need it. Same goes with other insurance we need from home owners, health care to car insurance you don't want to pay for it but it is there when you need it.

www.scubaplanners.com

 

[Cacia]

Especially those who have owned or been involved with a business vs not.

Excellent point, but here is my counter point.

My ethics code works this way:

I ask myself "if the situation were reversed..what would likely happen?"

The resort owner gets cancer, big crisis, whatever...they close suddenly. Would they pay me for my lost time scheduled off at work, that could not be rescheduled, all my costs incurred, the kennel..on and on ..or not? well, if the answer is it's just another one of those UNI-lateral Business VS lone individual...then I have no problem ethically advocating for my position.

Recently when I told Delta, not to put us five on a plane to Atlanta (15 minute flight)if they already KNEW they were backed up, people sleeping on the floors, etc....we would rather stay at my sisters until the delays were moving again, THEY said NO, "its a non-refundable ticket". Well, guess what? I stayed calm until I got home and then got on the horn and debated/stuck up for my case for a few hours and forced them to pay for the hotel, by leveraging thru Am X. If the consideration does not work both directions, then you are a chump if you don't bat for yourself.

I am a dive travel agent and I can't speak for other insurance company's but I recommend TravelEx insurance to my clients.

I thought hard about that, but the most likely scenario, by far, is that you will be delayed ONE day...so if you add up the 10-20 dollars per ticket, per person, times the numbers of trips you do in a year...it doesn't add up to me as money/odds well played.---I can see why you would like it, because now it's not your problem that you have to hear about/sort out, and THEY paid for it. I mean that in the nicest most practical way...as an agent it is good for you, but I don't see that it is good for me, in most instances.

 

[Harshal]

I thought about the credit card option, but seeing as it has already been paid out, what could the CC people do? It not like I didn't make the purchase? I was going to call them today, as well as DAN, and see what option might be available from those folks.

You paid them in advance you have not received the service yet, so in business terms the contract is not fulfilled yet.

 

[letsgodiving]

Obviously it is wise to have some sort of travel insurance. Back in the UK no one would ever travel without comprehensive travel insurance with a few million dollars of medical cover. Worst care scenario occurs and you need to be repatriated by air ambulance, the final bill with medical costs could be several hundred thousand dollars.

 

[Illini_Fan]

You paid them in advance you have not received the service yet, so in business terms the contract is not fulfilled yet.

I'm not an attorney, but isn't a contract = offer + acceptance with consideration. I'll defer to the T&Cs within the original booking, but I think you have the components of a contract and if the T&Cs address the refund policy (or lack thereof at this point in time), I'm still siding with the Dive Op on this one.

 

[PhilEllis]

I agree, Am X really goes to bat for you. I let my conscience be my guide on who I contest, but I have never lost one yet.

There is a good reason why you have "never lost one yet". AMEX doesn't go to bat for you.....they simply take the money away from the merchant, without even asking, and send it back to you. THE ONLY WAY the merchant can win is if you AGREE to let the merchant win.

When a credit card company says they are "protecting" you, what they really mean is they hold all of the power over the merchant and they can make the merchant do whatever they choose. If the merchant doesn't like it, they can simply quit taking the AMEX card. Not a very fair dispute system. Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

 

[Harshal]

I'm not an attorney, but isn't a contract = offer + acceptance with consideration. I'll defer to the T&Cs within the original booking, but I think you have the components of a contract and if the T&Cs address the refund policy (or lack thereof at this point in time), I'm still siding with the Dive Op on this one.

Contract cannot be just applicable to customer, like if you see there are clearly 2 sides in this discussion one who are either instructor or dive shop owners and then customer (Divers). If this same Dive OP cancelled this same trip for whatever reason they had they did full refund as it was convenient to them, then this diver should had asked the dive op to pay him for the days he took off from work believing he was going to go on dive trip.
Now this year since dive trip is going and diver cannot make it and has paid in advance for full, does that mean dive op can just sit on his money NO……..

Have you never returned any item to a shop after opening it? Yes everybody has and on that item either retailer takes a hit or a manufacturer. Normally in each and every state you have a option to return the product back, this is the same thing, you know don’t tell me that if this couple did not go on the trip the dive OP is going to run that trip in loss. Dive OP was just banking on this 2 customer for its profit… yes on this trip their profit margin will be little thinner….. big deal.

Basically like he said he would never go back to dive OP, diving is small community and most of us if we like service we always go to the same dive company and both are dependant on each other. I feel if dive OP would had worked with him either way by giving him full refund or take a cancellation fee and returning the balance amount, they would had made him a repeat customer…. Which they certainly have lost now.

 

[letsgodiving]

I'm not an attorney, but isn't a contract = offer + acceptance with consideration. I'll defer to the T&Cs within the original booking, but I think you have the components of a contract and if the T&Cs address the refund policy (or lack thereof at this point in time), I'm still siding with the Dive Op on this one.

Contractual law varies between countries, and the Dive OP is probably not a US registered concern. Under English Law any contract involving credit is strictly regulated, and a lot of countries are similar to the UK system. If credit was used to pay the deposit or final invoice the contract is voidable until the terms of the contract have been executed.

So many variables involved here for anyone to make a call on the validity of the contract.

 

[Harshal]

There is a good reason why you have "never lost one yet". AMEX doesn't go to bat for you.....they simply take the money away from the merchant, without even asking, and send it back to you. THE ONLY WAY the merchant can win is if you AGREE to let the merchant win.

When a credit card company says they are "protecting" you, what they really mean is they hold all of the power over the merchant and they can make the merchant do whatever they choose. If the merchant doesn't like it, they can simply quit taking the AMEX card. Not a very fair dispute system. Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

Phil – diver would not have to resort to the credit card company, if the dive OP would not be so hard headed and would work with the customer.

I have dived with OP so many times where I have planned for 3 days and I only dive 2 and they would only charge me for 2. On Occasions on full charter even when there were only 2 diver me and my buddy they have taken us out at same rate, they did not cancel it nor they charge us extra nor they gave us small boat, when matter of fact I know they have smaller boat as I have dived off the smaller boat too.

Now with this service whenever I am in the area without thinking twice I always go to them.

 

[Illini_Fan]

...If this same Dive OP cancelled this same trip for whatever reason they had they did full refund as it was convenient to them, then this diver should had asked the dive op to pay him for the days he took off from work believing he was going to go on dive trip.
Now this year since dive trip is going and diver cannot make it and has paid in advance for full, does that mean dive op can just sit on his money NO……..
.

That is not an apples to apples comparison. The dive op is asking the OP to pay for the space reserved and not sold to another user - why should a reserved space not carry an opportunity cost for the dive op and thus be eligible for compensatio?

In the case where the dive op cancelled, their liability should be limited to refunding the funds they have collected from the customer. Every company's vacation policy is different, I know in my case, if I end up at work when people thought I was on vacation that is no issue and the vacation days just move forward.

Probably going to continue to annoy people, but unforeseen circumstances do happen and pointing the finger at the "deep pockets" is not the right answer most of the time -- although our (American) society seems to think that is the case.