Should a dive op give you your money back?

[Rick Murchison]

You paid them in advance you have not received the service yet, so in business terms the contract is not fulfilled yet.

That's true, and if they were refusing service then there'd be a case. But they're not refusing service, are they? Their service is ready and waiting as promised... it ain't their fault you are refusing to accept the service they agreed to provide at the time they agreed to provide it. In the meantime, they have made arrangements and paid people based on your stated desire for the service, and in their contract - to protect themselves from financial ruin - they have stipulated, and you have accepted, that after a certain date you can't back out - or if you do back out, the burden is on you to provide a replacement or eat the loss. It's the only way an operator can stay in business, especially these days where people say they'll show up for all kinds of things and don't.
If you think you can run a trip any other way, just try it. YOU book and pay for a whole boat based on folks promising you they want to go, without stipulating a "no refund" date, and let me know how that works out for you.
Rick

 

[redacted]

That's true, and if they were refusing service then there'd be a case. But they're not refusing service, are they? Their service is ready and waiting as promised... it ain't their fault you are refusing to accept the service they agreed to provide at the time they agreed to provide it.
Rick

Actually, the liveaboard dive op did refuse service - a year ago when all theis started. This is an extract from last years post by diverrick:

"My wife and I have paid in FULL(in advance) for a week long, liveaboard diving trip to the Turks and Ciacos, with (deleted at my wife request, as she is currently working on working out a mutually agreeable deal), airfare and extra days at a local hotel included. All of this was done through a travel agent (also deleted for the moment).

We are two weeks out and they( the dive boat operator, not the travel agent) called today and cancelled the trip!! They said that we were the only ones to book the weeks trip. They said would go if they had a couple of more couples/persons, but seeing as we were the only ones to book, they are calling it off. "

Generally, I would agree with you; but in this situation, I think some special consideration is appropriate.

 

[redacted]

Why arent people talking trash about the Liveaboards policy? Thats who set what the Dive Op has to follow???

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. As I read this, diverrick is talking directly with and about the liveaboard dive operator, not some go between dive operation or travel agent who just handled the booking.

 

[redacted]

Still amazing me that people would be willing to lose 5 grand over paying $150 because the odds are good they won't need it. The reason why you get it is precisely that: it CAN happen. It would depend on where I'm going and the trouble I have to get there, but any international trip is gonna be insured. Note that it covers more than your own screw ups. And multiple trips are not going to change your odds of needing it. You could speculate that it would worsen your odds because maybe you're running yourself down and encountering plenty of people increasing your odds of contacting illness. The only thing I can see for multiple trips would be you do so many trips, you don't care about missing one, but that still doesn't mean you want to eat the cost, too.

And Awap, don't go if you can't throw 4 grand away??!!

I take it you do not gamble. With your logic, how can you not play the lottery. It only costs $1 and you could win millions.

I don't go on vacation that I can not afford.

The odds of you needing it is about half the cost of the ionsurance as a percentage of the total trip cost. If I thought the odds of my needing it were quite a bit higher, then I might consider seperate insurance. So far my sa vings from taking what I see as a small risk has paid for one or two trips to Cozumel.

 

[vladimir]

I have been in a similar situation. I had to cancel a trip on the Galapagos Aggressor because of work. Had I taken out trip insurance, it would not have covered this circumstance. In general, insurance is a waste of money, and I avoid it as much as possible. Anyway, I was fully prepared to eat the $2500 loss (~1999), because that was the agreement I made with them, clearly spelled out in the contract I signed. Aggressor did the right thing, however, and gave me two years to use the trip. I had booked the trip just 2 weeks prior to cancelling, which may have factored into their decision. They did earn my loyalty with the gesture, and they are still my default liveaboard.

 

[vladimir]

...isn't our government supposed to regulate some of this for consumers?

What kind of Republican are you?

 

[Rick Murchison]

Actually, the liveaboard dive op did refuse service - a year ago

And resolved it, yes?
This is a different deal. And they've already offered more than the contract calls for.
I really feel for these folks, but they really need to sell their trip.
Rick

 

[MeiLing]

Actually, the liveaboard dive op did refuse service - a year ago when all theis started. This is an extract from last years post by diverrick:

"My wife and I have paid in FULL(in advance) for a week long, liveaboard diving trip to the Turks and Ciacos, with (deleted at my wife request, as she is currently working on working out a mutually agreeable deal), airfare and extra days at a local hotel included. All of this was done through a travel agent (also deleted for the moment).

We are two weeks out and they( the dive boat operator, not the travel agent) called today and cancelled the trip!! They said that we were the only ones to book the weeks trip. They said would go if they had a couple of more couples/persons, but seeing as we were the only ones to book, they are calling it off. "

Generally, I would agree with you; but in this situation, I think some special consideration is appropriate.

If you read the OP closely, it says that the live-aboard did offer the couple their money back when the operator had to cancel on the first go around.

Last year they cancelled on us, and offered us the money back, but because we were forced to cancel, no deal.

 

[RJP]

Is the liveaboard completely full? In my mind, if it's not 100% full (or close to it), it means they didn't turn away any business to hold your spots. In that case, they should refund you completely and hope that their good business practice results in more future business. If they are booked full, it means it is likely that they have turned down other dives while holding your spots. In this case, I can see why they'd keep your money (that is, if they can't sell your last 2 spots)

Suppose those two spots were the ones that made the trip economically feasible? Imagine a dive boat that can take 18 divers, but if they don't have at least 8 divers, they lose money on the trip. If divers 7 & 8 cancel at the last minute should the op refund their money? (Given a clear "no refunds" policy.)

If that boat DID give them their money back they would then have to cancel the rest of the trip (ticking off more customers) or opt to lose money.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Cacia]

There is a good reason why you have "never lost one yet". AMEX doesn't go to bat for you.....they simply take the money away from the merchant, without even asking, and send it back to you. THE ONLY WAY the merchant can win is if you AGREE to let the merchant win.

When a credit card company says they are "protecting" you, what they really mean is they hold all of the power over the merchant and they can make the merchant do whatever they choose. If the merchant doesn't like it, they can simply quit taking the AMEX card. Not a very fair dispute system. Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

I know this, that is why I said "I let my conscience be my guide", I do not dispute everything, only what I think is right. In Deltas case, I saw it coming, offered to wait, and they insisted we fly into Hartfield goatrope and...sleep on the floor or fend for ourselves.

In JB's case I felt like five times in Iraq...we deserved a different date with two months notice (which Scuba Seraya :god: gave us).....and I have sang their praises ever since, for many reasons. I always try and work it out fairly with the vendor first.